The Flying Yankee

When and if they ever get to the point of operating it again, the safety of those riding in the cab of this train is going to become a significant issue.

mxdata wrote:When and if they ever get to the point of operating it again, the safety of those riding in the cab of this train is going to become a significant issue.

"IF" is not a question; the Flying Yankee is going to run again. Maybe another 2 to 3 years before it does but it will. Why do you think the safety of the passengers on the train is going to be a significant issue? At most the Yankee is going to be used for historical purposes, extrusions and specials. I don't see the Yankee going very fast on its runs when it’s back up and running. Don’t get me wrong safety should be the priority but I don’t think it needs to be the same standards that a commuter train would have. I don’t think the Flying Yankee will ever go above 50mph.

I didn't say anything about the passengers riding the cars, I was talking about the people in the cab. Take a look at the structure of the front of the power car and you will see what I am talking about.

The Flying Yankee logged well into the millions of miles in service on the B&M. During that time I don't believe any engine crew were killed aboard her, due to collisions. And she did derail and run right through a section shed somewhere up on the Cheshire Branch. A photo of that incident appeared in the B&M BULLETIN.

So I would not worry too much about structural integrity of the head end. Internally she is built like a brick you-know-what... Plus the slope and curvature will tend to deflect objects much more than the flat fronts of current control cars in use on the MBTA.

Anything carrying passengers will be equipped with FRA-certified lexan windows, as will the cab. If there was anything unsafe about the cab of the Flying Yankee, we would have heard about it from the CB&Q or the B&M years ago.

-otto-

You are undoubtedly all absolutely correct.

There will be a FREE tour of the Flying Yankee this coming Tuesday, November 22nd from 10am to 2pm. Donations are welcomed and all money will go to the restoration.
Click here for more information http://www.flyingyankee.com/index.html
Now my two cents: It's nice that there giving a tour but why have one during the middle of the week, when almost everybody is working, wouldn't it be better to have it on a Saturday or Sunday?

The Flying Yankee won't be any more dangerous than a RDC for that matter.
the cab will not get lexan windows as it scratches to easy, the side windows probably will.
The cab will need to be equipped with CFR 49.part 223 glazing.
shatter and impact proof.
see:

PART 223_SAFETY GLAZING STANDARDS_LOCOMOTIVES, PASSENGER CARS AND CABOOSES
--Table of Contents

Subpart B_Specific Requirements

Sec. 223.9 Requirements for new or rebuilt equipment.

(a) Locomotives, including yard locomotives, built or rebuilt after
June 30, 1980, must be equipped with certified glazing in all locomotive
cab windows.
(b) Cabooses, including yard cabooses, built or rebuilt after June
30, 1980, must be equipped with certified glazing in all windows.
(c) Passenger cars, including self-propelled passenger cars, built
or rebuilt after June 30, 1980, must be equipped with certified glazing
in all windows and at least four emergency opening windows.
(d) Marking. Each railroad providing passenger train service shall
ensure that for each passenger car, except for self-propelled cars
designed to carry baggage, mail, or express:
(1) Each emergency window is conspicuously and legibly marked with
luminescent material on the inside of each car to facilitate passenger
egress. Each such railroad shall post clear and legible operating
instructions at or near each such exit.
(2) Each window intended for emergency access by emergency
responders for extrication of passengers is marked with a
retroreflective, unique, and easily recognizable symbol or other clear
marking. Each such railroad shall post clear and understandable window-
access instructions either at each such window or at each end of the
car.


How strong ?? see:

Appendix A to Part 223--Certification of Glazing Materials

As provided in this part, certified glazing materials installed in
locomotives, passenger cars, or cabooses must be certified by the
glazing manufacturer in accordance with the following procedures:
a. General Requirements
(1) Each manufacturer that provides glazing materials, intended by
the manufacturer for use in achieving compliance with the requirements
of this part, shall certify that each type of glazing material being
supplied for this purpose has been succcessfully tested in accordance
with this appendix and that test verification data is available to a
railroad or to FRA upon request.
(2) The test verification data shall contain all pertinent original
data logs and documentation that the selection of material samples, test
set-ups, test measuring devices, and test procedures were performed by
qualified personnel using recognized and acceptable practices and in
accordance with this appendix.
b. Testing Requirements
(1) The material to be tested (Target Material) shall be a full
scale sample of the largest dimension intended to be produced and
installed.
(2) The Target Material shall be representative of production
material and shall be selected on a documented random choice basis.
(3) The Target Material shall be securely and rigidly attached in a
fixture so that the fixture's own characteristics will not induce test
errors.
(4) The Target Material so selected and attached shall constitute a
Test Specimen.
(5) The Test Specimen will then be equipped with a Witness Plate
that shall be mounted parallel to and at a distance of six inches in
back of the Target Material. The Witness Plate shall have at least an
area which will cover the full map of the Target Material.
(6) The Witness Plate shall be an unbacked sheet of maximum 0.006
inch, alloy 1100 temper O, aluminum stretched within the perimeter of a
suitable frame to provide a taut surface.
(7) The Test Specimen will be positioned so that the defined
projectile impacts it at an angle of 90 degrees to the Test Specimen
surface.
(8) The point of impact of the defined projectile will be within a
radius of 3 of the centroid of the Target Material.
(9) Velocity screens or other suitable velocity measuring devices
will be positioned

[[Page 304]]

so as to measure the impact velocity of the defined projectile within a
10% accuracy tolerance, with test modifications made to guarantee that
the stipulated minimum velocity requirements are met.
(10) The Test Specimen for glazing material that is intended for use
in end facing glazing locations shall be subjected to a Type I test
regimen consisting of the following tests:
(i) Ballistic Impact in which a standard 22 caliber long rifle lead
bullet of 40 grains in weight impacts at a minimum of 960 feet per
second velocity.
(ii) Large Object Impact in which a cinder block of 24 lbs minimum
weight with dimensions of 8 inches by 8 inches by 16 inches nominally
impacts at the corner of the block at a minimum of 44 feet per second
velocity. The cinder block must be of composition referenced in American
Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) Specification C33L or ASTM C90.
(11) The Test Specimen for glazing material that is intended for use
only in side facing glazing locations shall be subjected to a Type II
test regimen consisting of the following tests:
(i) Ballistic Impact in which a standard 22 caliber long rifle lead
bullet of 40 grains in weight impacts at a minimum of 960 feet per
second velocity.
(ii) Large Object Impact in which a cinder block of 24 lbs minimum
weight with dimensions of 8 inches by 8 inches by 16 inches nominally
impacts at the corner of the block at a minimum of 12 feet per second
velocity. The cinder block must be of the composition referenced in ASTM
C33L or ASTM C90.
(12) Three different test specimens must be subjected to the
ballistic impact portion of these tests.
(13) Two different test specimens must be subjected to the large
object impact portion of these tests.
(14) A material so tested must perform so that:
(i) there shall be no penetration of the back surfaces (side closest
to Witness Plate) of the Target Material by the projectile. Partial
penetration of the impact (front) surface of the Target Material does
not constitute a failure; and
(ii) there shall be no penetration of particles from the back side
of the Target Material through the back side of the prescribed Witness
Plate.
(15) Test specimens must consecutively pass the required number of
tests at the required minimum velocities. Individual tests resulting in
failures at greater than the required minimum velocities may be repeated
but a failure of an individual test at less than the minimum velocity
shall result in termination of the total test and failure of the
material.
(16) After successful completion of the prescribed set of required
consecutive tests, a manufacturer may certify in writing that a
particular glazing material meets the requirements of these standards.
c. Material Identification
(1) Each individual unit of glazing material shall be permanently
marked, prior to installation, to indicate that this type of material
has been successfully tested as set forth in this appendix and that
marking shall be done in such a manner that it is clearly visible after
the material has been installed.
(2) Each individual unit of a glazing material that has successfully
passed the Type I testing regimen shall be marked to indicate:
(i) ``FRA Type I'' material;
(ii) the manufacturer of the material;
(iii) the type or brand identification of the material.
(3) Each individual unit of a glazing material that has successfully
passed the Type II testing regimen shall be marked to indicate:
(i) ``FRA Type II'' material;
(ii) the manufacturer of the material;
(iii) the type or brand identification of the material.

The Flying Yankee First Annual Gala will be held on Saturday evening April 1, 2006 tickets are $60 per person with the choice of Prime Rib or Chicken Cordon Bleu. All proceeds from the Gala and Auction will go towards the restoration of the Flying Yankee. The Flying Yankee Gala will be held at the Holiday Inn Grand Ballroom located at 172 North Main Street, Concord, NH. Deadline to purchase tickets is March 24, 2006.
For more information go to http://www.flyingyankee.com/index.html

We are all eagerly awaiting this event, and the auction of "a number of original and extremely rare Flying Yankee components" including the original 201A engine parts that were listed in the Flying Yankee Website press releases and in the announcement of the event.

Does anybody know what happened to the previously announced plan to make the engine, generator, and traction motors an "educational" exhibit? Have they decided which new state-of-the-art engine and propulsion system they are going to use?

I have heard that the FYRG presentation will be the program at the B&M Historical Society joint meeting with the Mass Bay RRE at Lowell this afternoon April 8 at 3:30PM.

I think we covered the Winton engine restoration earlier in this thread? You can always write to the folks doing the restoration and ask them directly.

-otto-

Thanks for your advice, Otto, I decided to go to the meeting instead. The Winton engine was one subject among a number of questions that were asked. Mr. Giblin indicated that the plan to eventually use the engine in some sort of exhibit is still on, but they also plan on auctioning six of the eight original 201A pistons to raise money (one has been auctioned so far). The handout he provided indicated a need for $3.5 million total to complete the restoration, with $817,000 on hand so far. It was not totally clear whether the cost of the "state-of-the-art" propulsion system is included in that total, as he also talked about trying to get companies to donate components. A list of possible suppliers was shown in the presentation, so apparently no selection has been made yet. He indicated in response to a question that on completion the train will meet all applicable standards and be able to operate anywhere (although I don't think he had the Northeast corridor in mind when he gave that answer). He also commented that the maximum operating speed will be limited to less than 60 MPH. The handout provided now shows fundraising activities and restoration work extending to June 2009.

If anyone else on the forum went to the meeting and came back with notes different from what I have mentioned, please offer your version.

3.5 Million dollars is a lot of money. Given the fact that DutchRailnut posted this back in September of 04 on this thread in regards to how much was need in restoring the Flying Yankee and this it what DutchRailnut posted right from the Flying Yankee website: $2.3 million dollars is needed NOW! These funds will allow us to repay a previous $800,000 loan and provide an estimated $1.5 million dollars to complete the actual restoration of the Flying Yankee. Of this, funds will be spent on such items as the trucks and traction motors, complete structural repairs on the A and C cars, completion of the rebuild and install of the Winton 201A diesel engine, finishing the installation the new air brake system, the air conditioning system, FRA approved glazing for the cab, acceptance testing, complete documentation of all the repairs and systems and developing and publishing the operating and maintenance manuals.
Explain to me how the money has gone up from 2.3 Million to 3.5 Million? I wish I didn't have to work today, I would have gone to that meeting.

The $3.5 million number provided in the handout that was distributed at the meeting matches what is now posted on the Flying Yankee website. If they have repaid the $800K loan by now, then it would appear that the 1.5 million to complete the project has now increased to 3.5 million, so perhaps that includes the cost of the new propulsion system. However, based on the discussion at the meeting it appeared no definite decision has been made on what that propulsion system will be or whether it will be AC or DC (that exact question was in fact asked by a person in the audience) so I don't know how they would be able to quote a very accurate cost right now. Some things seemed contradictory, like their "study" to determine what replacement traction motors to use is being done after they have assembled the power car wheelsets with the previous TM bull gears. The assembled wheelsets and bull gears are consequently going to pretty much dictate the answer, unless they plan on doing that job over again.

I suspect that a pretty good sized chunk of money must have gone into the efforts to recondition the Winton engine before the decision was reached that it is not feasible to do so. He mentioned that six new pistons were manufactured for the Winton (why only six for an eight cylinder engine?), the cost of reverse engineering, building core molds, and casting must have been impressive. After all the effort they reached the same conclusion an EMD District Engineer had warned about in the beginning, that rebuilding the Winton engine would cost too much and would be too difficult to support in operation.

Previously on this discussion string the cost of the restoration was compared with the cost of new locomotives. Perhaps it should also be compared with the cost of rebuilding locomotives. If I remember the figures correctly, the 3.5 million needed to "complete" the work on the Flying Yankee is about what it would cost to rebuild two of the stretch F40s on the MBTA.

If I recall the F40PH-2C and F40PH-2CM rebuild scope correctly, that rebuild included stripping the locomotive down to the frame, doing metal restoration, rebuilding the main engine and all electrical rotating components, replacing high voltage cabling, installing an all new CAT 3412 HEP engine and generator and all related control cabinets and cabling, installing all new side panels, installing a variety of new auxiliary equipment, and complete prime and paint of the unit, plus auditing services for regulatory compliance and a variety of testing.

The information I got yesterday did help answer a number of questions I have had about this project. It was well worth the effort to make the fairly long drive to attend the meeting. I have watched the numbers on this project grow substantially over the years as the time frame slides steadily backwards. This meeting provided some perspective on what is being done, or not being done. This train is, after all, owned by the State of New Hampshire (it was donated to them), which doesn't seem to be participating in any of the financial risk at all. The questions, which came from many people in the audience, covered most of the things about this project that I have wondered about too. More information came out in the fifteen or twenty minutes of question and answer than has been on this string or the Flying Yankee website in several years.

By the way, the flyer that was distributed says the "naming rights" for each of the three cars are available for $500,000 each. Will one of the cars be named "Railroad.net", Otto?