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Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

 #1341872  by Kamen Rider
 
this only falls under "stupid question territory" only because you are asking for a remotely definitive answer on something regarding the MTA not taking place within the next six months.

It's like asking for the lotto numbers for a year from next Thursday.
 #1341880  by GirlOnTheTrain
 
"I'll be retired, if not dead before the Second Avenue Subway runs down here" - Someone who has 25 years until retirement from the MTA while on 14th and 2nd last week.
 #1342826  by Jeff Smith
 
In the news: Times Ledger
Maloney identifies challenges to Second Avenue subway project

U.S. Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-Astoria) and other elected officials have identified what they termed the five most serious challenges to the ontime completion of the Second Avenue subway and warned delays could bring ruinous money problems to the enormous project.

Maloney presided at a news conference at 72nd Street and Second Ave. amid the noise of construction July 1 and enumerated what she said were the top five challenges – in reverse order of concern.

5. 69th Street entrance to the subway.

4. Installation of tracks.

3,. Electrical work.

2. Keeping the project on budget

1. 86th Street entrance.

...

Maloney’s information came from a report by the MTA, which said June 22 that the 59th Street entrance to the 72nd Street entrance was moved from a storefront at 301 East 69th Street to the sidewalk because technical issues could not be resolved. The result was a delay in entrance project.

The MTA reported that the installation of tracks seemed to be on schedule.

As for electrical work, the MTA said it must be installed by December 2016.

The 86th Street entrance is badly behind, however, “and could affect revenue service,” the agency warned.

The MTA said delays could boost construction costs from $35 million per month to $45 million per month, “seriously eating into planned budget contingenc­ies.”

The agency has asked the contractor to increase manpower, work extended hours, double shifts and work weekends in order to get back on schedule.”
 #1342868  by Gerry6309
 
Day 31372 and counting... :(

27450 days since the 2nd Av. El closed north of 59th St.

22003 days since the 3rd Av. El closed.

15624 days since ground was broken.

About 3040 days since construction resumed
 #1352427  by railfan365
 
Well, the Governor, the Mayor, and Mr. Prendergast FINALLY got enough of the desired money in place for MTA to go forward with the current capitol plan.

Now, the big questions are : How's their progress in getting Phase I done?, and How long should it take for work on Phase II to actually commence? After all, quite a large part of the Phase II tunneling already exists, and it hardly seems necessary to do extensive environmental studies after all that went into getting work going on Phase I.
 #1355063  by Jeff Smith
 
^You are pretty much correct.

Second Avenue Sagas

Brief, fair-use:
MTA Board approves slimmer 2015-2019 Capital Program with less money for 2nd Ave. Subway

Notably and most importantly, the idea that Phase 2 of the Second Ave. Subway will see shovels enter the ground before the end of the decade has gone up in smoke. Instead of proposing $1.5 billion for the northern section of the long-awaiting subway line, the MTA has pared down its request to slightly over $500 million, and nearly all of this money is expected to come from federal sources. Here’s MTA-speak on the project:


The proposed 2015-2019 Capital Program provides $535 million to commence SAS Phase 2. This is a reduction of $1.0 billion compared to the previous 2015-2019 capital plan proposal that was submitted in September 2014, reflecting funding availability and the ability to implement scope within the plan period. Included are environmental, design, and real estate and project support to undertake preliminary construction work, such as utility relocation. The balance of the work necessary for operation will be funded in future capital programs.

In plain English, this means that the MTA no longer expects to start the actual construction work on Harlem-bound part of the Second Ave. Subway until the 2020-2024 capital plan comes due. Previously, the MTA had expected some contracts for tunneling to be issued by 2019, but in the capital plan and subsequent comments on Wednesday, officials indicated that this was no longer a realistic timeline, considering the MTA’s ability to undertake the work and available funding. For what it’s worth, the billion-dollar reduction for Phase 2 of the Second Ave. Subway is the single biggest line-item cut in the new capital plan.
Quite frankly, to add to Mr. Kabak's disgust, where is the New York Congressional Delegation? I.e. Schumenthal, er, Senator Schumer (who never went to a press conference he didn't like and called) and Charles Rangel (D-NY-13-Harlem)? Let's throw in Jerrold Nadler (D-NY-10-Lower Manhattan/Bklyn) or Carolyn Maloney (D-NY-12-East Side/Bklyn/Queens)!
 #1355222  by Jeff Smith
 
I'm surprised at the lack of reaction here. And I do owe a partial mea culpa to the politicians I called out; they issued a statement. Wow, that'll get them to fund it! But, in hindsight, I think more of the blame goes to the worst Mayor in NYC history deBlasio.

Here's a sampling:

Joint Maloney - Rangel statement
“While we are delighted that the state and city were able to reach an agreement to move the MTA’s Capital Plan forward, we are deeply concerned that roughly one-half of the reduction in the cost of plan (total reduction is $2.2 billion) is coming from the Second Avenue Subway. The current plan includes only $535 million for the Second Avenue Subway, most of which will be spent for preliminary engineering and design, as opposed to the $1.5 billion originally proposed. The MTA has also dropped its assumption that it would receive New Starts federal funding for the subway during this capital plan. New Yorkers have been promised a full build Second Avenue Subway since the 1920s. Based on the current schedule, one hundred years will have passed and we will still be waiting. This ‘go slow’ approach to the Second Avenue Subway is a huge mistake. ”
Weak. More, stronger:

WNYC/Transportation Nation Blog
"It's an economic injustice for the Second Avenue Subway to stop at 96th Street and no substantive work happen to connect it to a lower-income community that certainly needs the access as much as the first phase," said State Assembly member Robert Rodriguez, who represents East Harlem.

Phase 1, which runs from 63rd Street to 96th, is scheduled to open next year. Pushing the tunneling contract into 2020 or later means it will likely be a decade or more before the line opens north of 96th Street. (It will have taken nine years for the MTA to dig tunnels and finish stations on the first phase.) Rodriguez said East Harlem can't wait that long, especially because it slated to be rezoned — increasing its population.

"The 4/5/6 is the most overburdened line in the country," he said. "I think it's short-sighted, it's outrageous, and it's completely unfair." The MTA, he said, is closing its budget gap "at the expense of East Harlem residents."
And from the conservative everyone loves to hate Rupert Murdoch's New York Post
De Blasio silent while the MTA screws over Harlem

The MTA released its revised five-year capital plan Wednesday — and the city got hosed. Especially Harlem.

After months of sniping with Gov. Cuomo over how much the city should kick in to fix the MTA’s huge budget hole, Mayor de Blasio last week agreed to pony up $2.5 billion, way up from his offer of $657 million when the agency first came begging.

But only now does the public learn the fine print on how the MTA is doing “its” share to close that hole. And the fine print is rotten.

The MTA is slashing $1 billion from the planned $1.5 billion for the next phase of the Second Avenue Subway. That’s the phase that’s supposed to take the new line from 96th Street to 125th Street in Harlem.

By contrast, the East Side Access scheme to bring the LIRR into Grand Central is still getting its full $2.57 billion.

This is outrageous. MTA head Tom Prendergast threatened to slash Second Avenue Subway funds when he demanded more cash from the city. De Blasio delivered — then Prendergast slashed anyway.

And the mayor sat silent.
Can't blame this one on the GOP!
 #1355478  by GirlOnTheTrain
 
rr503 wrote:I thought we weren't supposed to talk politics :-D
Since Jeff is the grand overlord around here he gets a pass...BUT I might just have to harass him about it ;)
 #1355482  by Jeff Smith
 
I know I was a bit political. :wink: But it was related to the discussion at hand; my exception. Had this been posted by someone else, I would have allowed it, and given a situation where it's often pointed out the generally speaking the GOP is anti-Amtrak and anti-rail (which I tend to agree with). Had a much needed project like SAS been killed by the GOP, that criticism would be just as well warranted. For instance, let's say the GOP house at some point kills Gateway. They will have earned the scorn.

With a smirk, I'm going to point out the following:

-I merely pointed out the parties of those involved. If I could have found a Republican who covered those area I would have!
-I never attacked the Democrat party directly with an ad hominem attack as I often see about the GOP on here. And I will concede that those involved typically support transit projects. The most vociferous reaction was by the NYS politician I posted in my second link. Good for him; he's right. But the criticism of deBlasio is born out by his meek defense of his action, and pointing out he got money for a study of Utica Avenue. Wow. A study that probably costs a fraction of the cost of the cut to SAS.
-In spite of Democrat dominance of most of New England, NY, and New Jersey, they never seem to deliver the goods. That was a subtle (ok, NOT so subtle!) point of my post.

Anyway, I indulged myself once LOL. It's all good.
 #1355578  by railfan365
 
In a multi-billion dollar budget, all of the shortfall comes out of one project? By building Phase II, they'd be providing much need service to Harlem, opening up service options between UES and further uptown, doing more to ease the burden on the Lex, and putting another section of tunnel from the 1970's into use which has been maintained in usable condition for 40 years already at considerable expense.

It sounds like a childish slap at the city or a twisted sense of priorities putting countdown clocks and replacement of a fare collection system that doesn't need it ahead of actually running trains where they're sorely needed.
 #1355635  by rr503
 
I call fault at the Cuomo-deBlasio feud. It's nothing more than an ego war, and I think it really harms their working relationship, causing things like...this. (OK w/ you Jeff?)
All monetary politics are gross. I wish money grew on trees :wink:
 #1355673  by Passenger
 
Although everyone agrees it would be nice to have, we've been getting along without and nothing bad happens. Right?

There isn't the political pressure to keep it going when things get tight.
 #1355679  by BigUglyCat
 
railfan365 wrote:...putting another section of tunnel from the 1970's into use which has been maintained in usable condition for 40 years already at considerable expense.
Is this certain? My impression was that the 1970 tunnel work no longer fit the requirements, and that that work would be bypassed.
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