Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

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  by trainbrain
 
Does the complete and total incompetence of this country to complete any large infrastructure projects really piss anyone else off. Europe would be laughing at us if they saw how many times this line has been delayed/gone over budget, etc. It all comes down to wasteful spending needed for excessive "environmental studies" (expanding public transit helps the environment), fighting all sorts of lobbyists trying to block it, and career politicians who delay and cancel large projects like this one as a resume item (like Chris Christie did with ARC).

An interesting comparison showing the sheer incompetence and waste that gets spent with these projects is to compare Europe's English Channel Tunnel to Amtrak's Gateway Project. The Channel Tunnel cost 12 billion in today's dollars, and is 30 miles long (and that was way over budget to begin with). The Gateway project is projected to cost 20 billion and the tunnels are a 10th the length. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! If based entirely on tunnel length, the Gateway tunnels should cost 1.5 billion to build. Since the project includes more than just the tunnels (expanded Penn Station, new Portal Bridge), I'd bring that number up to 5 or even 8 billion to cover all of that. At 8 billion being spent on the real project, that's 12 billion taxpayer dollars completely wasted.
  by Jeff Smith
 
According to this, December revenue service is in more jeopardy: SecondAvenueSagas
Doubts grow over Dec. 2016 opening for Second Ave. Subway

The latest update came at Monday’s Board meeting session of the Capital Program Oversight Committee. The MTA first ran through its litany of updates, and the pending items sound awfully similar to those that delayed the opening of the 7 line extension by nearly 20 months. The agency notes that fire safety and communications systems at various stations remain behind schedule. At each of 72nd St., 86th St. and 96th St., the delay is in the testing of fire safety systems and, more importantly, the installation of critical communications systems. Since conduits were installed late, testing has been delayed, and without testing and acceptance, MTA Capital Construction cannot certify the project complete and ready for New York City Transit control. As of now, the MTA doesn’t expect these problems to cause a delay in revenue service date, but they appear in the red on the status dashboard.

Meanwhile, elevators too remain an MTA bugaboo. The agency has not yet received four elevator cabs for the 72nd St. station, largely due to last-minute design tweaks that delayed deliver of specifications for the elevators to the manufacturer. We’ve heard recently about the ongoing need for Change Orders related to this project, and this delay is a clear indication of the impact of those COs. With the project so delayed, the MTA has completed only 336 of the 608 tests it was due to wrap by June and is now pushing operations testing out by 30 days and into a short window set to begin on October 1.

In a follow-up presentation, the IEC issued its warning. “Based on the project’s reports and IEC field observations of station construction progress, the IEC finds that the project is not on schedule and has fallen further behind schedule in the month since our last report in June. The Project Team now needs to implement and maintain a revised schedule for completion of testing and for meeting the Revenue Service Date.”
  by Jeff Smith
 
File this under: "Did You Know". There is an existing portion of the SAS that is actually in service, albeit not for SAS service. The Chrystie Street Connection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrystie_ ... onnections" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Proposed Second Avenue Subway connections

As a road, Chrystie Street extends northward beyond Houston Street to become Manhattan's Second Avenue, and the Chrystie Street Connection is currently the only part of the long-planned Second Avenue Subway to be opened to service. It is one of several vestiges of the unbuilt Second Avenue Subway, which include two existing tunnels under Second Avenue, a subway extension from Lexington Avenue – 63rd Street to 96th Street opening in 2016, a recession in the ceiling at Second Avenue station, and a short tunnel under Bowery.

The Chrystie Street Connection comprises two of the six existing parts of the long-planned Second Avenue subway line that were built in the 1960s and 1970s—the other four parts being the BMT 63rd Street Line, two unused subway segments under Second Avenue in East Harlem (one of which is being connected to the 63rd Street line for Phase 1 of the line opening in 2016), and an unused subway segment under Confucius Plaza just to the south. The Chrystie Street Connection would have facilitated cross-platform and track interchanges between the Second and Sixth Avenue lines at Grand Street. Under current plans, Phase 4 of the future Second Avenue Subway will be built below the existing Sixth Avenue tracks.
  by 1890rOGERS460
 
I recently (this Tuesday) stopped in to the Second Avenue Subway information center on Second Avenue in the 80's. They insist that in spite of the present dealys, they will be meeting the December 30, 2016 deadline for Phase I to open. They also maintain that between the $1.5 billion that's presently budgeted, and the progress being made in moving on the preliminaries and the quest for more money, that Phase II could be open as early as 2026. It's also on a large posted map that at the end of Phase II on 125th Street, enough additional tunneling will be done to have tail tracks extend 525 feet West of the end of the station.

Does anyone expect Phase I to be done by the end of 2016? I don't.

Might Phase II actually be done in 2026? I think that generally, it could be done, because building PhaseII will involve the same tasks and activities as bulding Phase I, but for a section of railroad that covers less distance than Phase I and has a larger part of the tunneling in place from the 1970's. Also, modifying the 125th Street stop on the Lex to connect with the Lexington Avenue Stop on the SAS should be done with less work than they've been putting into modifying the 63rd Street/Lexington Avenue Station. But specifically, in light of how long it's taken to build subway expansions since the 1960's, I expect that we'll be lucky to see it get done in 2030.
  by Kurt
 
I spotted one of the track geometry cars testing the new track on Second Avenue. I saw it thru one of the doors at Lexington/63 Street today.. Upper level,There were too many construction workers in the way to get a picture, but it came into the station from the new tunnel, and then reversed direction and headed back north along Second Ave.
  by 1890rOGERS460
 
This is encouraging news with regard to the line opening within reason for the end of this year deadline. At least it's fair to expect that they wouldn't be testing track stability unlesss there was a substantial amount of track to test.
  by GirlOnTheTrain
 
There WILL be trains running to 96th Street when the new crew pick goes into effect in November...whether or not those trains will be in revenue service remains to be seen.
  by GirlOnTheTrain
 
My source is reliable, that's all you need to know. You're new here so you're excused ;)

As for Passenger's question: the tracks are there, it's the stations that are lacking...when the pick goes into effect the crews will be assigned as if SAS is open...so why do you think they'd run non-revenue service to 96th?
  by Jeff Smith
 
^I can vouch as the admin that the source is reliable. And as to why, because they have to test the line, signals, etc. I'm sure they did the same with the 7 extension. You've got to post the jobs to the union after all.
  by John_Perkowski
 
^ I can't vouch for the source, since naugatroll hasn't told me that. I can vouch naugatroll is a person of integrity, who works very, very hard not to sling poop in the forums.
  by Jeff Smith
 
Likelihood of delay increasing? Gothamist
Second Avenue Subway Possibly Delayed, Again
...
Maybe we shouldn't be surprised though, since any day the sun rises, the Second Avenue subway is probably missing or in danger of missing another deadline. This potential delay is because the elevators and escalators at the 72nd Street station won't be tested until late November, according to NBC. So, if there's anything wrong with them, fixing the problem would delay the opening of the line. Again.

The MTA could decide to just open the 63rd, 86th and 96th Street stations without the 72nd Street station, but MTA briefing materials NBC shared show that progress on the elevators and escalators at the 86th Street station also needs to improve for the station to be ready. ...
and: NBC New York
MTA Reassesses Timeline for Second Avenue Subway Station

The MTA has reassessed the timeline for a portion of the Second Avenue Subway construction project, quietly raising new questions about whether it will open on time in December.

The MTA now says the elevator and escalator testing at the 72nd Street station won't be attempted until late November -- which means any glitch would jeopardize its opening, unless the MTA decides to skip opening that station and proceed with opening the 63rd, 86th and 96th street stations first, according to transit advocates closely watching the project.
...
Source: MTA Reassesses Timeline for Second Avenue Subway Station | NBC New York http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Se ... z4LIFO1yfW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Follow us: @nbcnewyork on Twitter | NBCNewYork on Facebook
Media: @Steve Cuozzo (Twitter)
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  by Jeff Smith
 
In my defense, I also used NBC.... ;)
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