NARS - National Academy of Railroad Sciences

I was hired directly out of NARS to a class I on graduation, and that was during the big slow down. Since you didn't go to NARS how do you know what's best? Again, there is not "right" answer.

And again, here we are with guys who didn't go giving opinions on what was best despite the fact that you did go. While you were working at a short line, I was working at BNSF and my seniority date is higher than any new hires that might come in from Short Lines.

There is not a correct answer, just different approaches. But the statement that "its a waste of money" is NOT a fact, it's just an opinion and not based on some absolute knowledge someone has.

Everyone in our new hire class with BNSF was NARS, no off the street, so don't kid yourself

Well I certainly understand and respect your point of view. I agree when you say there is no right answer. However, economically speaking, I would rather get paid to be trained than pay for it (personal preference), plus you start your railroad retirement sooner . Also, the one year spent on the short lines was actually less time than I would have spent at NARS (not sure if the program is still a 2 year degree or not like it was when I thought about going.) Therefore, I actually had better seniority because I was hired by BNSF sooner. Also I lucked out and got put into engine service 3 weeks after conductor school. Had I went to NARS I would have had to wait an additional 2-3 years for promotion. Stars were lined up for me on that one.....
The long and the short of it is that if you want to work for a railroad then you do what you need to do to make yourself standout above the other canidates/applicants whether it be real working experience or through a school.

NARS conductor class is a 6 week program.

"The long and the short of it is that if you want to work for a railroad then you do what you need to do to make yourself standout above the other canidates/applicants whether it be real working experience or through a school"

My point exactly. I understand a number of people who graduated from NARS in 2007 haven't been hired. BNSF had very few classes. It's not like it was several years ago, things have really slowed down. But if you keep in touch, you'll get called evenutally, maybe not till 2009 but you'll get called. The railroad would much rather be hiring like crazy to keep up with skyrocketing demand, believe me! But the recession is not under the control of any organization, and the mortgage mess is hurting because at least for BNSF moving lumber and other building materials is a big chunk of business. From what the talking heads are saying on Wall Street, we're not looking at things speeding up again until "09".

So to get hired in this environment, if you can make yourself standout from the hundreds of other options they will have, do it. If you can't afford to go to NARS, what I would recommend is if you can find someone who did, borrow the books and stuff, go through them, get a friend to help you go over the rules, and if you can get an interview tell them, you couldn't afford the school, but you borrowed the materials and put in the time. It shows committment. Interviewers love that sort of stuff.

I graduated NARS in Feb 07 and only 2 out of my entire class were hired by BNSF. I was given an alternate position so im hoping I will get hired within the next 6mths. But was passed over for two minority canidates with no NARS or RR experience. What it comes down to is that if you try to better yourself, take out a student loan, pay $6,000 for NARS, pay to live in KC for 6wks, take off work for 6wks, pass the class with a 96%, pass your interview, have no blemishes on your employment record/background, have shortline experience but are a white male and theres minorities in your interview with no experience they will get hired off the streets. So its a double standard, I have to pay to try to better my life but because of the color of their skin they will have a better chance than me. I personally know both of the individuals who were hired and know they have no RR experience, No NARS., no Heavy Equipment experience.

emtwalls wrote:I graduated NARS in Feb 07 and only 2 out of my entire class were hired by BNSF. I was given an alternate position so im hoping I will get hired within the next 6mths. But was passed over for two minority canidates with no NARS or RR experience. What it comes down to is that if you try to better yourself, take out a student loan, pay $6,000 for NARS, pay to live in KC for 6wks, take off work for 6wks, pass the class with a 96%, pass your interview, have no blemishes on your employment record/background, have shortline experience but are a white male and theres minorities in your interview with no experience they will get hired off the streets. So its a double standard, I have to pay to try to better my life but because of the color of their skin they will have a better chance than me. I personally know both of the individuals who were hired and know they have no RR experience, No NARS., no Heavy Equipment experience.

A close friend of mine hired in Gillette in 2007 in his class there were 12 people 10 white males, 2 white females 0 nars grads. just for what its worth. Oh yeah that was in Gillette, WY

If that isn't a big ,hipocritical double standard I don't know what one would be!It looks like someone has proven BNSF to be complete liars.

emtwalls wrote:I graduated NARS in Feb 07 and only 2 out of my entire class were hired by BNSF. I was given an alternate position so im hoping I will get hired within the next 6mths. But was passed over for two minority canidates with no NARS or RR experience. What it comes down to is that if you try to better yourself, take out a student loan, pay $6,000 for NARS, pay to live in KC for 6wks, take off work for 6wks, pass the class with a 96%, pass your interview, have no blemishes on your employment record/background, have shortline experience but are a white male and theres minorities in your interview with no experience they will get hired off the streets. So its a double standard, I have to pay to try to better my life but because of the color of their skin they will have a better chance than me. I personally know both of the individuals who were hired and know they have no RR experience, No NARS., no Heavy Equipment experience.

I understand your frustrations. At one time I was trying to get hired by Amtrak for an engineers job in San Antonio and they hired 3 minorities w/ no experience over me and I was certified as a class 1 engineer. 2 failed the program and 1 quit, so they did not benefit from it. Unfortunately, the goverment makes big companies hire people of different cultures/races and back ground regardless of other qualifications. So big companies comply so that they do not get in trouble for the whole equal opportunity thing...which really is not all that equal. I believe the most qualified should get the job, but then again that is why I am probably not the president of the USA or a corporate guru.
If you have not gotten hired yet, keep in mind this is a tough time. Economy is the driving factor for freight railroads and things have dropped off a lot. However, if you are willing to go to the "coal country" you can probably get hired. Coal is something that is always busy, for the most part. UP has openings in Wyoming and the BNSf has openings in Alliance NE. Try there, otherwise if you go to another location your chances of being furloughed are greater. Also, NS only hires what they need and they seem to do well with keeping people working.
Good Luck

emtwalls wrote:I graduated NARS in Feb 07 and only 2 out of my entire class were hired by BNSF. I was given an alternate position so im hoping I will get hired within the next 6mths. But was passed over for two minority canidates with no NARS or RR experience. What it comes down to is that if you try to better yourself, take out a student loan, pay $6,000 for NARS, pay to live in KC for 6wks, take off work for 6wks, pass the class with a 96%, pass your interview, have no blemishes on your employment record/background, have shortline experience but are a white male and theres minorities in your interview with no experience they will get hired off the streets. So its a double standard, I have to pay to try to better my life but because of the color of their skin they will have a better chance than me. I personally know both of the individuals who were hired and know they have no RR experience, No NARS., no Heavy Equipment experience.

I understand your frustrations. At one time I was trying to get hired by Amtrak for an engineers job in San Antonio and they hired 3 minorities w/ no experience over me and I was certified as a class 1 engineer. 2 failed the program and 1 quit, so they did not benefit from it. Unfortunately, the goverment makes big companies hire people of different cultures/races and back ground regardless of other qualifications. So big companies comply so that they do not get in trouble for the whole equal opportunity thing...which really is not all that equal. I believe the most qualified should get the job, but then again that is why I am probably not the president of the USA or a corporate guru.
If you have not gotten hired yet, keep in mind this is a tough time. Economy is the driving factor for freight railroads and things have dropped off a lot. However, if you are willing to go to the "coal country" you can probably get hired. Coal is something that is always busy, for the most part. UP has openings in Wyoming and the BNSf has openings in Alliance NE. Try there, otherwise if you go to another location your chances of being furloughed are greater. Also, NS only hires what they need and they seem to do well with keeping people working.
Good Luck

emtwalls wrote:I graduated NARS in Feb 07 and only 2 out of my entire class were hired by BNSF. I was given an alternate position so im hoping I will get hired within the next 6mths. But was passed over for two minority canidates with no NARS or RR experience. What it comes down to is that if you try to better yourself, take out a student loan, pay $6,000 for NARS, pay to live in KC for 6wks, take off work for 6wks, pass the class with a 96%, pass your interview, have no blemishes on your employment record/background, have shortline experience but are a white male and theres minorities in your interview with no experience they will get hired off the streets. So its a double standard, I have to pay to try to better my life but because of the color of their skin they will have a better chance than me. I personally know both of the individuals who were hired and know they have no RR experience, No NARS., no Heavy Equipment experience.

I understand your frustrations. At one time I was trying to get hired by Amtrak for an engineers job in San Antonio and they hired 3 minorities w/ no experience over me and I was certified as a class 1 engineer. 2 failed the program and 1 quit, so they did not benefit from it. Unfortunately, the goverment makes big companies hire people of different cultures/races and back ground regardless of other qualifications. So big companies comply so that they do not get in trouble for the whole equal opportunity thing...which really is not all that equal. I believe the most qualified should get the job, but then again that is why I am probably not the president of the USA or a corporate guru.
If you have not gotten hired yet, keep in mind this is a tough time. Economy is the driving factor for freight railroads and things have dropped off a lot. However, if you are willing to go to the "coal country" you can probably get hired. Coal is something that is always busy, for the most part. UP has openings in Wyoming and the BNSf has openings in Alliance NE. Try there, otherwise if you go to another location your chances of being furloughed are greater. Also, NS only hires what they need and they seem to do well with keeping people working.
Good Luck

I was lucky (unlike the majority of my classmates) to be hired on by a shortline for RailAmerica. The pays not Class 1 pay, $45-50k a year but I never have to stay in a hotel. Engines are old as dirt but its a job.

emtwalls wrote:I was lucky (unlike the majority of my classmates) to be hired on by a shortline for RailAmerica. The pays not Class 1 pay, $45-50k a year but I never have to stay in a hotel. Engines are old as dirt but its a job.

which shortline did you get hired on with? I used to work for Dallas, Garland and Northeastern Railroad before I got hired by a class 1. I believe RailAmerica owns them as well.

emtwalls wrote:I was lucky (unlike the majority of my classmates) to be hired on by a shortline for RailAmerica. The pays not Class 1 pay, $45-50k a year but I never have to stay in a hotel. Engines are old as dirt but its a job.

which shortline did you get hired on with? I used to work for Dallas, Garland and Northeastern Railroad before I got hired by a class 1. I believe RailAmerica owns them as well.

I have contacts with UP in the St. Paul area. UP is desperate for new hires there, when I last talked with him (in mid December) they still had quite a few "Loan Outs - switchmen from other places" working there and wanted to have another class. So there's an option.

And as was stated before, Gillette and Bill Wyoming seem to always need help. Also, KCS in Texas often has openings. Right now business is really down, so all you need to hang in there until business picks up.

Look on the UP employment web site, look for St. Paul, MN. There are some down sides to the job I should point out. It's an island in terms of senority, so when you leave there, you'll go back to ground 0 in terms of senority, but hey it's a job, it's Class 1 pay, and it's real experience. Right now with the economy in the tank, you just gotta do what is necessary to be able to fight another day.

Another two cents: if you have $6,000 burning a hole in your pocket or you're desperate to make your resume look better, go. If you're not that vested, don't bother. Go the shortline route.

You have no job gaurantee waiting afterwards, unless you do their signal or carmen class. So few people take those that BNSF and UP snag almost every graduate. Operations are a different story. There are plenty of job canidates out there, so don't assume NARS gives you privledge.

And no, being female is not that much of an ace card, guys. I can tell you from three years of trying to get hired, it did not help me, and I have a clean record on everything from jobs to drugs, nothing but blue collar experience, and even broke down and went to NARS and got perfect scores on all their tests, but still couldn't get interviewed by BNSF.

I think what confuses people is the fact that NARS is run by BNSF, and BNSF touts it so much, that kids go there assuming they'll get hired. Don't assume that, and keep in mind there are plenty of other railroads and the only difference between alot of them is a paint scheme. Alot of kids I know that were there when I was finally gave up on BNSF and got snagged up immediatly by other Class I's.

Honestly though, Choochoo U isn't that bad. It's easy if you know anything about railroads, and gives you a pretty decent idea of what you'll be doing.

The biggest issue I had with NARS that entrants might keep in mind, is that because BNSF runs it, they train based on their rules. You hire with another railroad and you're gonna end up learning different terminology and sometimes different authorities. Plus, when I went things were slow for BNSF so they were cycling their field trainers through to keep them working, so I had 7 different instructors in 6 weeks and none of them knew what the others had done. But, there was a lesson to be learned there too - with railroads, the left hand never has any idea what the right hand's doing. That should be part of the curriculum, now that I think about it.

And also, anybody that decides to go, make contacts while you're there. That's what makes it worth the money - at least it was in my case.

It's like any other college - would you go to law school and never intern or meet and greet, but expect a job as soon as you pass the bar? You make connections with the instructors, and they can help you out later.

They still help me out whenever they can, and God knows railroad jobs are 90% about who you know.