#4 Red Line Cars 1900-2151

Was any overhaul ever planned for the No. 3 series? This seems much like Metro-North's M-6s, a relatively young
fleet retired (1994-2015, 21 years in their case) simply it was more cost effective for a standardized fleet
replacement.

The No. 1 series from 1969 did have a rebuild in the late 80s, but what was the scope of the program? Was it a full rebuild with propulsion, HVAC, electrical and other equipment replaced or original equipment reconditioned to new?

Rebuilds generally takes place when equipment reaches 15 years of use which is usually their halfway point of useful service life. For the red line, the Chinese crrc cars will be replacing the entire red line fleet. At this point, who knows how long it will take as it seems like turtles are building the cars.

30 years for subway cars is NOT a reasonable life expectancy. 40-50 is much more reasonable with the understanding that they might need to last longer. The Orange Line Hawkers went 43 years with not so much as a paint job and those bodies were very sub-par in endurance. The No. 1 Red Line cars could easily go another 20+ with a proper overhaul (No. 2s even more) and the No. 3 cars could go another 30-40+ although their technology might require a more extensive rebuild. None of the Red Line equipment, as old as it is, NEEDS to be put to pasture. I certainly feel that retiring the 01800s this early is a disservice to the taxpayers who purchased them.

Are the CRRC cars using off-the-shelf domestically produced part? I imagine the problems will be with electronics, door controllers and of course those exploding battery things.

The exploding batteries and doors that opened while the train was moving were both sourced from US suppliers if I recall correctly.

CRail wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:43 pm 30 years for subway cars is NOT a reasonable life expectancy. 40-50 is much more reasonable with the understanding that they might need to last longer. The Orange Line Hawkers went 43 years with not so much as a paint job and those bodies were very sub-par in endurance. The No. 1 Red Line cars could easily go another 20+ with a proper overhaul (No. 2s even more) and the No. 3 cars could go another 30-40+ although their technology might require a more extensive rebuild. None of the Red Line equipment, as old as it is, NEEDS to be put to pasture. I certainly feel that retiring the 01800s this early is a disservice to the taxpayers who purchased them.

Sure, but you have to take care of your equipment if you're going to run it into the ground. Not paying any mind to the exterior appearance of the Orange Line fleet was just fine until a rusted-out sill fell off the train and wedged itself between the train and the third rail.

I don't necessarily disagree that you could, or even should, expect a longer lifespan out of your equipment (though I would disagree that the 15/16/17s are worth saving at this point). At least with a situation like the Type 8s, you can understand why the T wants to retire them "early" without a proper overhaul; they want to move to OPTO and, maybe more importantly, absolve themselves of the maintenance headaches with the Bredas. The 1800s are a different story. The governor's office and the T painted themselves into a corner with the CRRC contract from the beginning. When the options for the additional Red Line cars were picked up, it was probably cheaper or not significantly more expensive to just buy entirely new cars than a full-scope rehab of the 1800s (which would probably have included a propulsion replacement since GE parts seem to be nonexistent).

Let's hope they've learned their lesson by the time the Siemens Blue Line cars come up for their mid-life.

PATCO showed a 50 year old fleet could get a renewal.

The 0600s only lasted 1979-2009, 30 years, about the same as the last Boeings. And the Orange Line #11 01100s
were just 24 years old (1957-1981).

In other words, by 2025 the No. 3 (01800) series will be the same age as their 1963 predecessors were in 1994.

The 1963 cars on the Red Line were crappy to begin with and I was glad to see them go. But the 1800's are nice cars that I wish would be overhauled and kept in-service for the foreseeable future. And who knows LOL? If the CRRC order continues the way it's going, maybe that will actually end up happening. Wouldn't that be a blast!

TurningOfTheWheel wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:39 pmSure, but you have to take care of your equipment if you're going to run it into the ground. Not paying any mind to the exterior appearance of the Orange Line fleet was just fine until a rusted-out sill fell off the train and wedged itself between the train and the third rail.

You have to take care of your equipment anyways. Poor maintenance plagues new equipment the same way it does old.

The orange line arcing incident (not a fire) was a fluke, certainly caused by shoddy maintenance, that could happen to any car old or new. That was only the story it was because it happened on a bridge and drama queens smashed out a window while others calmly awaited assistance (there's video of it). Then of course there was the king Karen that threw herself into the river. That was the story, not the arcing. 3rd rail arcing is not otherwise newsworthy.

Head-end View wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:00 pm The 1963 cars on the Red Line were crappy to begin with and I was glad to see them go.

There were 92 01400s (01400-01491) and the replacement No. 3 series was only 86 cars. Was a six car deficit planned?

Waiting at South Station for a southbound Red Line train this morning, I saw one of the new Chinese train sets go by towards Alewife. When my train arrived, it was also one of the new sets, with 1900 leading. Have they taken delivery of some new sets lately?

They have two sets currently working.

Head-end View wrote:The 1963 cars on the Red Line were crappy to begin with and I was glad to see them go. But the 1800's are nice cars that I wish would be overhauled and kept in-service for the foreseeable future. And who knows LOL? If the CRRC order continues the way it's going, maybe that will actually end up happening. Wouldn't that be a blast!

This article states some of the 01800s will be receiving new interior lights, AC units and motor controllers to extend their life 10-15 years. The T put out bids for the work last fall. Also, the CRRC cars are exceeding reliability requirements, with 132k+ miles between breakdowns. The contract states 90k miles.

https://www.cambridgeday.com/2024/01/17 ... -supplier/

Do we know what percentage of the 1800 fleet will receive the upgrade?

Once the new orange line cars order is done, then they will shift gears and produce the red line cars. That’s why there hasn’t been any new red line cars with 2 new sets plus 2 spares atm. That’s all I know so far.

Upgrade to modern AC traction, replacing the GE GTO units from early 90s? Orphan equipment, since only NYCT's
R110B had them as well