#4 Red Line Cars 1900-2151

Well don’t forget that these new cars can still produce a lot more problems than what are known now. Hope to see them soon, but with the Mbta, anything can happen and is up in the air.

I understand that a second CRRC train set has arrived on T property not too long ago. Hopefully this is the beginning of the new rolling stock

The Mbta said that this winter, new red line cars production will increase because of the new testing facility and track that’s completed. We will have to see how things go from here. Also, the new train isn’t running full time yet. Only during peak rushours it looks like.

I now understand that two more 01900s (01906/01907) have arrived on T property and are in testing phase. Thats great news as we hope to see 01908/09 and 01909/10 in the near future

typesix wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:13 am There are quite a few 01800s going for the ride only, with no propulsion active.

CRail wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:58 am The blue light on the side of the carbody indicates a propulsion fault. The limit of how many blue lights a train can have before being removed from service has increased over the years, probably because the higher standard would mean a major shortage now for the reasons discussed above.

I've been going through various videos of the Red Line and most recently (2019-2023) it seems the number of cars
with dead propulsion is high, some times every other 01800 train has one or two out of six cars with blue lights on.
However dead cars seem to be common since at least 2015 and before.

This leaves me with some questions:

If one car in a pair has no propulsion, how does the other function? I'm used to married pairs with the even/odd
concept with one cars having a battery and the other with a compressor.

Can the operator run a train in cab forward position in a dead car? (obviously yes, since quite a few cars on the
ends of trains have blue lights.) Would that make the lead car basically an unpowered cab car like on commuter
rail, being controlled by trainline?

Is motive power (HP), acceleration and overall performance reduced by each car without functional propulsion?

If the propulsion is cut out, all other systems remain operational, so the car becomes an unpowered trailer. This does reduce performance, since the train has to move the same amount of mass with 1/6 less power.

Is MBTA not able to repair the dead propulsion units?

The 01800s have GE propulsion electronics and parts are not readily available, especially since GE has left the transit field. This was another reason to replace the entire Red Line fleet.

Thanks typesix. I guess things on the Red Line are gonna get a lot worse before they get better. That is unless CRRC gets their act together and starts delivering the new cars more quickly. From all accounts here, it doesn't sound like that's about to happen.

BTW, are the 1700 series cars doing better than the 1800's at this point in time? If so, it would be funny if they outlasted the 1800's.

Yeah Ian, I would be surprised if the 1986-87 era built 01700s would be kept later than the 1992-94 era 01800s which IMO are the worst performing especially with brake problems and other issues

A real shame seeing the 1800's deteriorating the way they are. When they were new, they were really nice cars, my favorite in the whole system. Sharp looking and very spacious, and originally we could see out the front of all of them. I will miss them when they're gone.

Keep in mind that a "Propulsion Fault" doesn't mean that the car has NO propulsion, but that there is a fault in the propulsion system, perhaps 1 or 2 motors out of the 4 aren't working. On DC equipment, motors are wired in 2 sets of 2 (typically #1 and #3 motors in series and #2 and #4 in series). AC equipment (the 01800s) may not be wired this way. So it's potentially possible (unless someone knows otherwise) that a blue lighted car has 3 of the 4 motors working.

In addition to propulsion, much of the braking of modern equipment is dynamic. Dynamic brakes (which date back to the PCC era, yes the Mattapan cars have them) work by turning the motors into generators creating resistance and slowing the car down. A propulsion fault will also disable dynamic brakes, this is true on both transit and railroad equipment.

The situation with the 01800s and their unique GE AC electrical systems is understandable, but how are the No. 1 and 2 series from 1969-1988 faring? They have a Westinghouse cam control system (electro-pneumatic DC cam
using forced air and relays).

I’m familiar with NYCT and know the Westinghouse cams were notorious for overloads, overheating and burnouts. The electro-pneumatic cam (used as new equipment 1958-1989) was since superseded with “E-Cam” (electronic cam/solid state with microprocessor control) by 1991 that is much more reliable and no longer has the
overload/overheating issues being equipped with sensors that can detect current overloads and shut down
before damage occurs. The older cam had no safety valve or fault protection in case of an overload. Except for
two NYCT cars in the New York Transit Museum fleet and possibly some TTC H-1/H-4 work motors, I believe the approximately 130 No. 1 and 2 Red Line series are the last active cars with the older Westinghouse cam units
running. (Half of the 01400 series (46) had the same Westinghouse cam units.)

Did the same issues occur on the Red Line as with NYCT? I know some other Westinghouse cars also developed a tendency for overloads, fires and burnouts, such as the Metroliners and NJDOT Arrow I MUs.

Were any propulsion upgrades done on the 01500/01600 series in their late 80s rebuild and also on the 01700
series in their more recent refurbishment?

For the first time to my knowledge, there are two sets of Red Line CRRC cars running right now (~1PM 10/10/23).

As far as I can tell, there have been no new cars delivered recently, so that would mean either they are "all in" and running every one of the 12 cars on the property, or perhaps one or both is a 4 car set?

Possibly 4 car set, I could have sworn I saw a 4 car set take the flyover into Cabot yard the other night while I was at work.