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Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

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 #522849  by henry6
 
Intrusive? What I have found ironic is that all these NIMBY's, etc. who have grown up needing aural stimulus, like music with a beat constantly in thier ears via earphones, car stereo systems, home entertainment systems, and concerts that can be heard on the next planet and who cannot be without an ipod or a radio or a cd player cemented to their crowns, call the noise cops when a train goes by or blows its horn at a grade crossing in the next county; it is intrusive. These people's decension is from lack of proper information and the fear generated by the oil and highway lobby, and from politicians who need the control and power. Do they complain about the jets moving in and out of Morristown, Teetaboro, Newark? No, just trains blowing at a crossing or excelerating from a station. Would all electric operations stop thier Nimbyisim? No.

Over the past twenty or so years I have stood in front of my family's home in Denville unable to hear approaching trains because of the roar generated from I80 and the planes circling overhead awaiting a slot at Newark. When I left town in 1961 you could hear birds singing, fire sirens 10 miles away, but rarely a train, and none of it was a tenth as intrusive as today's I80 penetrating roar.

Grade crossings poorly designed? These towns were born around the railroad in the mid 19th Century with the grade crossings a product of the town's and later automobile's growth. If people and towns want the crossings taken care of, it is probably on the town's onus that underpasses be dug or bridges be built.

In the end there is no one answer to urban planning, especially when it comes to transportation. Planners know what has to be done over the next 10, 20, 50 and 100 years and the first thing to be done is to figure out how to address the NIMBY's so that, in this case, the State of NJ can keep up, progress, and be capable of handling any given situation in the near and distant future.

 #522851  by jersey_emt
 
Nasadowsk wrote:For a line that was just 'built', the Riverline's doing awfully well, which seems to suggest that there's a HUGE latent demand for quality transit in this state (i.e., fast, frequent, passenger friendly), that NJT's simply not bothering to tap.
You definitely hit that right on the nail. The ridership on the River LINE is testament to the fact that fast, reliable mass transit can be popular and heavily used even in places where you wouldn't think it work.
As for not having overhead at Mt Arlington? The bigger question is, why, in this day and age, does one of the most densely populated states in the US even HAVE any diesel mainlines? NJT should have gone all-electric 15-20 years ago.
Again, 100% agreed. There's only a few places on the system that don't currently see enough service to warrant electrification.
As for NIMBY, maybe if NJT's trains weren't so intrusive, they'd be more welcome? The PL-42's at least a start, but the older diesel fleet's obscenely loud, never mind horn noise, poorly designed grade crossings, and stations that are excessively overbuilt. Nobody wants a lousy neighbor moving in next door. The fact that there is opposition to rail lines moving in says a LOT about the desirability of the service to the general public.
I don't think they're intrusive at all, noise-wise. While yes, most of the trains running by my house (I live 100 feet from the NJCL between Avenel and Woodbridge) are electric and very quiet, plenty of diesels still pass by. You get used to them, you really do. I rarely even notice when a train runs by, and haven't for as long as I can remember. IMO, people who move in next to a rail line and complain about the noise are complete morons, but that's a different topic.

 #522889  by Nasadowsk
 
jersey_emt wrote: You definitely hit that right on the nail. The ridership on the River LINE is testament to the fact that fast, reliable mass transit can be popular and heavily used even in places where you wouldn't think it work.
I doubt NJT's 'planning' 'experts' would have ever even looked at the route, but it's not only successful, it can and SHOULD be used as a model to create a statewide regional network, connecting with the existing routes. the service, equipment, performance, and stations, are clearly what the public wants, or else they wouldn't ride it. NJT should be using the Riverline as a model, but they're not.
Again, 100% agreed. There's only a few places on the system that don't currently see enough service to warrant electrification.
Those places should be serviced with Riverline-type equipment. The advantages of the type over a conventional diesel, are obvious to anyone that's been on both.
I don't think they're intrusive at all, noise-wise. While yes, most of the trains running by my house (I live 100 feet from the NJCL between Avenel and Woodbridge) are electric and very quiet, plenty of diesels still pass by.

The electrics aren't, but NJT's diesel fleet, minus the PL-42s, is like every other diesel commuter fleet in the US - loud to the point of being obscene. You can bet a good amount of the MOM opposition is they don't want that level noise going through town every hour.
IMO, people who move in next to a rail line and complain about the noise are complete morons, but that's a different topic.
To an extent. But let's be honest here, most transit agencies haven't done much to curb their noise, nevermind the freight RRs. And when you're talking about dropping a GP-40 every hour onto a rail line that saw a train a week, it's not unrealistic to expect people to be upset. Sure a quiet locomotive doesn't have the "grunt grunt me man" factor railfans love, but these systems are being built for the general public, not rail buffs. They should conform first to what the public desires.

And on that note - if the public doesn't want the service? Then don't build it. It's their choice.

 #523026  by NJTRailfan
 
That's exactly what I was saying with the projects like NYSW when Sparta was the only town giving NJT a hard time. so my advice was to drop Sparta from the map entirely and terminate service in New Foundland and possibly build a yard there or maybe use the yard in Butler. Very little to no NIMBYS there and when Sparta is finally ready to behave and not act irrationally as they usually do then they grow up and join the club.

Work on the projects that have no or very little NIMBYS like the light rail projects then work your way into that heavy oppostion. Cutoff has very little NIMBYs but MOM has alot of it so start with the Cutoff then MOM should be saved for last.

It also wouldn't hurt to upgrade the current system with total electrification on the Boonton, M&E between Dover-PM Yard and NJCL and increase more trains to Hackettstown and expand service to Washington, NJ on an already active line.

BUT

 #523184  by henry6
 
But cutting Sparta out might be cutting off your nose to spite your face. NJT may lose more passenger revenue by not going as far a Sparta. Yes, the could go to Limestone and skip Sparta, but they shouldn't cut short of Sparta.

 #523193  by cjvrr
 
Nasadowsk wrote: As for not having overhead at Mt Arlington? The bigger question is, why, in this day and age, does one of the most densely populated states in the US even HAVE any diesel mainlines? NJT should have gone all-electric 15-20 years ago.

As for NIMBY, maybe if NJT's trains weren't so intrusive, they'd be more welcome? The PL-42's at least a start, but the older diesel fleet's obscenely loud, never mind horn noise, poorly designed grade crossings, and stations that are excessively overbuilt. Nobody wants a lousy neighbor moving in next door. The fact that there is opposition to rail lines moving in says a LOT about the desirability of the service to the general public.
And since NJT is spending money on upgrading equipment, existing physical plant and existing stations, its easy for me to see their hands are full. THE tunnel, dual mode locomotives and the new passenger car fleet are current huge expenditures. There is no money to expand their service area with projects such as the Cutoff, MOM, NYS&W or Northern Branch and with current state budget limitations, I can't see the Feds giving us "matching" funds to implement them.

Someone else commented that the Cutoff has the least amount on NIMBYS...I don't know where that came from, but living and working in Morris County I can tell you there is plenty of opposition to that line, but at this point they are not that well organized. However if the project heated up, they will become a huge PITA. Remember the line runs through the Highlands and while rail lines are exempt from those regulations, I have been told by planners involved the station locations and parking areas are not.

 #523197  by blockline4180
 
Nasadowsk wrote: As for NIMBY, maybe if NJT's trains weren't so intrusive, they'd be more welcome? The PL-42's at least a start, but the older diesel fleet's obscenely loud, never mind horn noise, poorly designed grade crossings, and stations that are excessively overbuilt. Nobody wants a lousy neighbor moving in next door. The fact that there is opposition to rail lines moving in says a LOT about the desirability of the service to the general public.

Ever hear the P40's?? IMHO, those are much louder then any GP40 or F40 currently running on NJT!! How does MNCRR and CONNDOT deal with all the NIMBY complaints east of the Hudson?? Are they not as vocal over there along the Harlem, Hudson, & Danbury lines???

 #523395  by Nasadowsk
 
I've seen the P-32s. I'm amazed there's no law against equipment that loud.

Ironically, for all their faults (and boy, do they have faults...), the LIRR's DM-30s are easily the quietest locomotives I've ever heard when in electric mode.

 #523520  by cjvrr
 
Back to Mt. Arlington Station....

From NJT sources current ridership is around 100 per day up to 10am. Perhaps 150 per day total.

Current lot has about 30-40 open spaces on an average day. Bus riders and about 20 carpoolers use the lot too.

Lot is owned by NJDOT and has not yet been turned over to NJT.

NJT is looking to provide perhaps 150 more spaces for future growth.
 #523536  by henry6
 
Also see the thread on ridership numbers for clarification of what is happening. MT. Arlington is not on the list as it was not open in 2007 but it does give an indication of what NJT has done and where it is going.

 #536623  by Dangerous-Boy
 
anyone know if the bus strike has increased ridership at the station? Also, I heard rumors that electrification might happen in two years but I can't find the star ledger article about it.

 #536720  by NJTRailfan
 
Dangerous Boy, Hope it happens. But electrification must come sooner so that they can make room for all those new trainsets comming in. Plus Mt Arlington and Lake Hopatcong along with the surrounding areas can use the weekend/direct service to NYP.

 #536729  by finsuburbia
 
Dangerous-Boy wrote:anyone know if the bus strike has increased ridership at the station? Also, I heard rumors that electrification might happen in two years but I can't find the star ledger article about it.
Was there a star ledger article about it? The only mentions of electrification to port morris that I've found is on this and other railfan forums.

 #536892  by AMoreira81
 
finsuburbia wrote:
Dangerous-Boy wrote:anyone know if the bus strike has increased ridership at the station? Also, I heard rumors that electrification might happen in two years but I can't find the star ledger article about it.
Was there a star ledger article about it? The only mentions of electrification to port morris that I've found is on this and other railfan forums.
No strike ever happened, IINM.
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