VIA to scrap unfinished Renaissance cars

According to a report from CKPR Radio in Thunder Bay ON, VIA will be dismantling the remaining ex-Eurostar car shells to be used for parts and scrapping what's left. The 139 cars, acquired by VIA Rail in 2001, were intended to be used between England and France through the Chunnel but never saw service there and were sitting idle, and mostly incomplete, for years before VIA bought them. VIA did complete 106 of the cars and placed them in service on the Montreal-Halifax "Ocean" and in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor. There were never any specific plans on what to do with the remaining 33 which have been sitting at Bombardier's Thunder Bay facility since being delivered.

CKPR wrote:A fleet of passenger rail cars from England which have been sitting at Thunder Bay's Keefer Terminal for seven years are finally being put to good use.

Via Rail is having the cars dismantled and will use them for parts on their existing passenger fleet.

The cars are left over from a refurbishing contract the local Bombardier plant had in 2001. Work crews with Arnone Transport have been taking the wheels and bogies off the 33 British Rail cars this week at Keefer Terminal, and preparing
them for shipment down east.

Where exactly would "out east" be? Montreal's maintenance yard?

Montreal would make the most sense. That's where I inferred they meant.

Ken V wrote:According to a report from CKPR Radio in Thunder Bay ON, VIA will be dismantling the remaining ex-Eurostar car shells to be used for parts and scrapping what's left.

There were never any specific plans on what to do with the remaining 33 which have been sitting at Bombardier's Thunder Bay facility since being delivered.

Suggestion: Sell them to Amtrak for conversion to baggage cars ... Amtrak needs more baggage cars.

Thats a good idea . Do baggage cars need to be up to fra standards for passenger cars ???

hey guys,

if i was VIA(assuming i had funding and Lawrence Cannon is having a good day)
, i'd use 20 shells for an economy style sleeper (like an all roomette or a variety of economical accomodations), 3 more full bagage cars(with actual bag car doors) and the final 10 would end up being 8 coachs and 2 first class.

However, i would look at the possibility of using the last 13 shells as the following:
6 dome lounges(ren replicas of the CR single levels), 5 coachs, 1 first class or 3 dome lounges, 4 diners, 4 coachs, 2 first class.

I'd lash up the 20 economy sleepers in 5 groups of 4 making them interchangeable with the Budd fleet and the ren transitions(which btw should be made into lounges for Easterly class).
The way i see it is, since the Ocean and Chaleur are more utilitarian then a cruise liner such as the Canadian, it should have accomodations available for customers whom don't have or don't want to spend over 300$-500$ one way in a double bedroom. While they are comfortable, i can only imagine customers whom pay extra cause they are alone.

Also, this would provide a few extra cars for emergency purposes for not only the Ocean and potentialy the Chaleur but also corridor consists.

David Benton wrote:Thats a good idea . Do baggage cars need to be up to fra standards for passenger cars ???

Yes. Unfortunately, I have a hunch these Renaissance cars probably do not meet FRA standards for crash-worthiness.

Amtrak could always request FRA grant a waiver; I believe the Talgo equipment used in the Pacific Northwest service has an FRA waiver.

jhdeasy wrote:

David Benton wrote:Thats a good idea . Do baggage cars need to be up to fra standards for passenger cars ???

Yes. Unfortunately, I have a hunch these Renaissance cars probably do not meet FRA standards for crash-worthiness.

Amtrak could always request FRA grant a waiver; I believe the Talgo equipment used in the Pacific Northwest service has an FRA waiver.

They may also be of momocoque design , which would make cutting bigger doors into them expensive . lots of bracing required . New Zealand would buy them but i think theyre too long for our loading gauge . we buy lots of mk11's and convert them to 1067mm , but theyre shorter

Per Messrs. Benton and Deasy comments above, the lawyer in me says "call them express package service" cars, put them on the back end of the LD's, and advertise "express package service" in the timetable only for those holding tickets on this train, meanwhile the TT says: "checked baggage service is canceled for good".

What I'm getting at is the baggage gets renamed and moved, and doesn't have to be FRA compliant. I can't speak to the exact letter of the law, and I'm sure Mr. Deasy can, but if you let the legal beagles look at the law long enough they'd find a way to get around it... Especially if we are just talking baggage cars.

The Renaissance baggage cars were made from sleeping car "shells." VIA purchased all the components and, as I have been told, most of the Ren. fleet was delivered this way, i.e. completed by Bombardier in Thunder Bay. (I was privileged to tour the first set of coach/service car/sleeper that had not yet been adjusted for Canadian use. There were no steps down to our low-level platforms and there was still an immigration officer's holding cell in the service car.) Sleeping car shells were also used for the three transition cars that are used as a buffer between the last Ren. sleeper and the Park car and also for the three dining room cars.

jhdeasy wrote:

David Benton wrote:Thats a good idea . Do baggage cars need to be up to fra standards for passenger cars ???

Yes. Unfortunately, I have a hunch these Renaissance cars probably do not meet FRA standards for crash-worthiness.

Amtrak could always request FRA grant a waiver; I believe the Talgo equipment used in the Pacific Northwest service has an FRA waiver.

I would be very surprise to see any piece of equipment operating on VIA not meeting the FRA standards .

big bird wrote:
I would be very surprise to see any piece of equipment operating on VIA not meeting the FRA standards .

I wouldn't be so surprised. None of the sanders on the F40PH-2 fleet are operational, and the Renaissance Cars already operate under a Transport Canada waiver (which is why the bathroom at the end of corridor Ren trainsets is always supposed to be locked...it's inside the crumple zone!)

I've always understood that the Renaissance cars are not FRA compliant. There was talk of adding a "protect car" if you will at the end of the Renaissance cars since they are very vulnerable if ever rear-ended. However, this never came to be.

Thanks guys , I have learned something today !!!

thanks for the info as well on the renaissance cars, I know from day one they would never meet FRA requirements for there too light ( in weight) for FRA to consider crash worthiness, also thanks for the info on the crumple zones in the renaissance cars . As Ive never been in one I always figured there ends were reinforced when VIA rebuilt them, and knowing that Amtrak would not even bother to evaluate them. The only reason VIA bought them is because thy were getting them for a steal of a price. I would love to see a waiver given to them to allow VIA and Amtrak to use them on there international routes ( chicago-toronto hopefull new route and Toronto to NYC)as now there just surplus. would be nice to see 25 cars turned into long distance coaches and 5 converted into dining/ cafe cars. That still leaves VIA 3 for parts. However the FRA would never let that happen. even though Amtrak complains they have an overstock of locomotives but no Rolling stock to spare.