• Toms River Industrial Track!

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

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  by Bracdude181
 
@JohnFromJersey Hate to say it, but I honestly don't think the MOM Project will come to fruition. NJT is bad enough as it is.

There are a few people along the line who could get rail service, but Conrail won't bother fixing the line if these places are only gonna get one or two cars every so often. However, if the Ciba Geicy land is clean enough, A rail to truck transloading and Intermodal terminal could be built there. That's personally something I would love to see, and it could draw some big traffic to this line if setup and run properly.

Would actually make a nice line for NJ Seashore Lines to run. They'd have their sand trains from Lakehurst to Woodmansie and back with the potential of railcar storage south of the Clayton pit, while the TRIT becomes a small branch line with a few customers and a transloading terminal at Ciba Geicy.

That's how I would do it at least. Nevertheless , it's unusual that anyone would spend money to fix a crossing on a line that's currently abandoned. Would it be cheaper to just take the rails up and pave over the crossing?
  by Bracdude181
 
@WashingtonPark Yeah the groundwater is still bad but they can't build anything on the clean topsoil?
  by WashingtonPark
 
I could be wrong, but I can't imagine the EPA allowing anything to be built within the boundaries of a Superfund site while it's still in the process of being cleaned up. Know of any examples?
  by Bracdude181
 
@WashingtonPark Can't say that I do. I'd still like to see a rail to truck transloading center somewhere in the area though.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:45 pm @WashingtonPark Can't say that I do. I'd still like to see a rail to truck transloading center somewhere in the area though.
Was there ever a plan to have a rail to truck transloading facility in Ocean County? It doesn't seem like there would be enough demand, and I'd imagine Toms River would oppose it cause the increase in traffic.

If the ARC tunnel ever gets through, or NJT somehow gets privatized, I think we could see a MOM line come to fruition.
  by GSC
 
I've been saying all along that the Ciba-Geigy plant would make a great place for a park-and-ride terminal. Terminate the MOM line there instead of Lakewood. Would take so much traffic off the roads. Need a feasibility study? Sit near Route 37 and the Parkway any morning or evening and watch the insane traffic.
  by Tanker1497
 
Toms River twp. has already talked at open public forums about RailRoad use of Ciba Geigy. The site encompasses approximately 1,400 acres, 320 of which was only ever developed. The train to truck was being thought to be built around the removed 47,000 drums in several pits. The other roughtly 1,100 acres is going to be developed sooner than later!
Union Carbide knows that's prime real estate! Remember most of any hazardous waste was pump into the Toms River. Which was totally legal for most of the time they were doing it! As for use of a superfund site.
The Former Legler Landfill superfund site located in Jackson, NJ - former landfill operated by Jackson Township in 70s. Site reportedly had fires that could not be put out with water, unauthorized materials dumping, etc. Site currently utilized as a recreational air field for model planes and such, named Wiskow Field. Which has gone on since 1990 the field uses a small portion of the 110 acres. And the pit area isn't on any hazardous hot spots. A fence blocks access to these spots. So I see no reason why Ciba Geigy could not be used for RailRoad activity so long as no one is living on the land.
  by R&DB
 
My thoughts on the use of the Ciba site for railroad activity is the Route 37 crossing. It just seems too busy, the NIMBY cabal will have fits with too many trains blocking traffic, The only way I see too get local support for renewal of rail traffic into the area is MOM with an accent on travel for the massive senior population in the area. Shopping excursion trains to NYC, Red Bank, etc. Whiting should also be considered with it's 55+ population and paucity of shopping options in Whiting. Lots of potential between Toms River, Lakehurst, Whiting, Lakewood, Farmingdale, Red Bank. Forget MOM and create Ocean to Red Bank shuttle trains. Put the wye back in at Lakehurst and tracks back to downtown Toms River. This area of New Jersey is just too far for comfortable commute times to NYC metro area. But it would benefit from reliable off-highway transportation. Light Rail on the Southern Secondary and Toms River Industrial Track, time separated for freight like the River Line. Ciba could be used as a maintenance/storage yard. This could be public (NJT) or private. (NJSL?)
  by CJPat
 
I have had many of the same thoughts as R&DB. But a couple of glitches pop up.

NJT can't get to Whiting: Clayton owns the trackage and ROW. NJT would have to buy it all back.

As far as a light rail up to Red Bank, I like the idea, however, the issue becomes a light/heavy separation issue after the Red Bank Yard to get to the station. You are not going to put a second station at the yard and it would be near impossible to put in a separate parallel line up to the station (all kinds of difficulties with that. That would be more of an RDC type operation. Unfortunately, I can imagine a pretty large commuter crowd developing so that one or two car RDC may not be able to handle it?

On top of that, you still have freight customers that need Heavy. Might be able to resolve that with time separation like the River Line.

Of course this kind of discussion would be more at home on the MOM thread.
  by Bracdude181
 
I seriously doubt that MOM is gonna happen in any way, shape, or form at this point. It’s unfortunate, but NJ Transit doesn’t want to spend any money on such a project. Plus, NJ Transit and Conrail HATE each other, and any sort of track sharing agreement between them will likely be very one sided.

The NIMBYs complained about Conrail bringing tank cars to Columbia Propane during the last few years of operation, but they continued to do so. It took NJT banning propane shipments for that to stop.

As for Route 37, any sort of freight train using that crossing would only do so twice a day at most. There are ways around delays. I’m sure NJSL or Conrail or whoever would work something out with county officials in regards to how long a train can block the road. It helps that there is one detour for the Route 37 crossing.

I personally think the TRIT would make a great little branch line for NJSL. A few customers here and there plus a decent sized transload station across from 37 would be a nice operation. One that could be profitable for both NJSL and Conrail. NJ Transit running down here could work, but I think they need to replace a lot of their higher management first.
  by Ken W2KB
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:39 pm It took NJT banning propane shipments for that to stop.
Interesting that NJ Transit could override the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution.
  by Bracdude181
 
@Ken W2KB I was not aware that the clause affected freight train restrictions, of which there are on the Coast Line. My sources have told me that’s the reason why Columbia Propane stopped getting cars. However, there may be another reason.

Conrails North Jersey Shared Assets area (which the TRIT and the Southern are under) is run by some real nasty people with the ideology that getting rid of everything will improve the company’s financial stability. They came to power in late 2002 or early 2003 and immediately began their horrid business practices, all of which are still in effect today.

Getting rid of the TRIT was one of their first goals, which they most likely accomplished by skyrocketing the shipping prices. Since anything flammable or hazardous can be fairly expensive to ship by rail, (I believe this is due to insurance reasons) hence why Columbia Propane was one of the first to go. Builders General would follow in either 2005 or 2006 and the TRIT was declared out of service shortly after.

If NJT did indeed ban propane shipments, Conrail would have been wise to take them to court. However no cases were filed, as Conrail no longer cares.

There is still hope for this line though. I can’t confirm but I have heard that NJ Seashore Lines has surveyed the line and has considered reopening it. Again, I can’t confirm this as it’s only a rumor that’s been floating around, but it certainly is possible. Personally, I hope this is what happens. Seashore Lines has the chance to really turn things around and get some more rail freight in Ocean County, provided they play their cards right.
  by CR7876
 
Bracdude181 wrote:@Ken W2KB I was not aware that the clause affected freight train restrictions, of which there are on the Coast Line. My sources have told me that’s the reason why Columbia Propane stopped getting cars. However, there may be another reason.

Conrails North Jersey Shared Assets area (which the TRIT and the Southern are under) is run by some real nasty people with the ideology that getting rid of everything will improve the company’s financial stability. They came to power in late 2002 or early 2003 and immediately began their horrid business practices, all of which are still in effect today.

Getting rid of the TRIT was one of their first goals, which they most likely accomplished by skyrocketing the shipping prices. Since anything flammable or hazardous can be fairly expensive to ship by rail, (I believe this is due to insurance reasons) hence why Columbia Propane was one of the first to go. Builders General would follow in either 2005 or 2006 and the TRIT was declared out of service shortly after.

If NJT did indeed ban propane shipments, Conrail would have been wise to take them to court. However no cases were filed, as Conrail no longer cares.

There is still hope for this line though. I can’t confirm but I have heard that NJ Seashore Lines has surveyed the line and has considered reopening it. Again, I can’t confirm this as it’s only a rumor that’s been floating around, but it certainly is possible. Personally, I hope this is what happens. Seashore Lines has the chance to really turn things around and get some more rail freight in Ocean County, provided they play their cards right.

Your sources aren't correct, stop using them. You might not believe this, but some pretty high up people read this forum. I'm not sure where Columbia/Ace gets their propane from, but if its from anywhere nearby, no railroad could compete with that service from trucks. This line checks all the boxes when it comes to a formal STB abonnement, this doesn't look like its ion the radar, so lets sit back and wait.
  by R&DB
 
CJPat
Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:00 pm said:
Of course this kind of discussion would be more at home on the MOM thread.
CJPat,
You are right, but it also belongs here, on th Southern Secondary thread and the NJSL threads. All of these and the MOM discussion are interconnected.
I personally believe everything in the way of rail west of Red Bank (except the NJT Coastline) should be operated by one entity. NJSL has experience handling freight and passengers so I mentioned them as a possible contractor. Interchange for Conrail could be at Red Bank. NJSL would be allocated space in NJT Bank yard. Build a yard in the Ciba Site. Rebuild the Lakehurst wye, passing siding at Farmingdale. Completely rebuild some of CMSL's RDCs for passenger service instead of my previous idea of lite-rail. (Failing the RDCs becoming viable, Alstom now has (from Bombardier) the original Budd plans and perhaps could modify for current technology?) Extend the TRIT back into downtown Toms River and build additional stations at Toms River, Holiday City (BiminI Dr), Lakehurst, Whiting, Farmingdale, Collingwood Auction and Eatontown. For passengers wishing to transfer to Coastline at Red Bank I believe there is a pedestrian tunnel between platforms. Passenger service could be Toms River to Redbank to Whiting and return to Toms River with intermediate stops. Extra trains could be added for morning and evening rushes timed for connections at Red Bank. NJT uses Bank yard primarily for MoW, so there should be enough space for a NJSL layover yard. Freight interchange could have locos waiting in yard.
NJSL could service (and add) local freight customers and share a portion of the profit with NJT or NJDoT. Service from Farmingdale to Freehold could be added, which would allow freight interchange to be moved there from Red Bank. Of course this would require a wye at Farmingdale. This would remove freight from the Coastline except the stretch from WOOD to ESSAY (the Oak Island to Browns transfer) making NJT happy.
I've watched the MOM/Southern Secondary (I heard the nightly sand trains in Maxim) plans for more than 3 decades and I'm firmly convinced the only way to get it done is by private enterprise as a contractor/operator to NJT/NJDoT. The need is there, it just needs money and imagination.
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