• SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

  by ryan92084
 
Outlying regional rail has virtually 0 functioning cameras. Some stations have had cameras installed inside as part of their plan to allow key card holders to access the waiting room during off hours but like that plan the cameras (afaik) aren't implemented. Keep in mind many stations aren't even networked together outside of the ancient PA system.
  by alewifebp
 
Head-end View wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:41 pm What kind of problems are there buying one from an agent?
It was just slow, and quite frankly wasteful. A envelope full of paper documents that no one will read or just throw out. Agent was using a laptop to process it. So much easier buying something like a Metrocard stored value card that was figured out how many years ago now?

At 30th I transferred to the ACL. A few clicks on my phone and I bought the tickets.
  by rcthompson04
 
alewifebp wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:51 pm
Head-end View wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:41 pm What kind of problems are there buying one from an agent?
It was just slow, and quite frankly wasteful. A envelope full of paper documents that no one will read or just throw out. Agent was using a laptop to process it. So much easier buying something like a Metrocard stored value card that was figured out how many years ago now?

At 30th I transferred to the ACL. A few clicks on my phone and I bought the tickets.
The ease of buying tickets for Amtrak on the app comes to mind as well.
  by NotYou
 
Haven't used them since the COVID pandemic started, but Amtrak's android mobile app and website to purchase tickets were quite functional. Not necessarily the slickest, but pretty darn good for government work.

SEPTA is really shooting themselves in the foot carrying over the complex fare structure, rules, and regulations. Started taking SEPTA regional rail into the city a few times a month since the summer. I must: scan at the start station, scan for the conductor (who will still only issue a cash fare if you don't have a SEPTA key card as there is no key card kiosk at most regional rail stations), and scan when exiting. More work than buying the old 10 packs of paper tickets.
  by ryan92084
 
You are not required to scan with the conductor, it is more of a courtesy thing while people are getting used to the system. You are welcome to decline and so far i haven't had any conductor push back from it.

There aren't plans to expand the key machines to more outlying stations and afaik there never was. Paying the conductor (cash or card now) is the intended only way to handle one off trips originating from outlying stations until they update the system to take nfc payments and who knows when that will be. They were doing the exit fare thing for a bit but i think they gave up on that real quick.

They really shouldn't have ditched the paper independence passes as they were great for people just visiting for the day and now they are stuck buying a piece of plastic they'll never use again.
  by PHLSpecial
 
ryan92084 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:58 am You are not required to scan with the conductor, it is more of a courtesy thing while people are getting used to the system. You are welcome to decline and so far i haven't had any conductor push back from it.

There aren't plans to expand the key machines to more outlying stations and afaik there never was. Paying the conductor (cash or card now) is the intended only way to handle one off trips originating from outlying stations until they update the system to take nfc payments and who knows when that will be. They were doing the exit fare thing for a bit but i think they gave up on that real quick.

They really shouldn't have ditched the paper independence passes as they were great for people just visiting for the day and now they are stuck buying a piece of plastic they'll never use again.
Why not quick trips from the TVM? For those single trips. It's dumb that you can only buy a quick trip from the airport to the CC stations. Or crazy idea bring back the mobile payments.
  by CNJGeep
 
ryan92084 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:58 am You are not required to scan with the conductor, it is more of a courtesy thing while people are getting used to the system. You are welcome to decline and so far i haven't had any conductor push back from it.

There aren't plans to expand the key machines to more outlying stations and afaik there never was. Paying the conductor (cash or card now) is the intended only way to handle one off trips originating from outlying stations until they update the system to take nfc payments and who knows when that will be. They were doing the exit fare thing for a bit but i think they gave up on that real quick.

They really shouldn't have ditched the paper independence passes as they were great for people just visiting for the day and now they are stuck buying a piece of plastic they'll never use again.
You are absolutely required to present a fare to the conductor when requested. That has not changed from paper pass days. On the conductor's end, they are required to scan all key cards, even if they witnessed the passenger tapping in. If you haven't gotten any "pushback" yet, that's great, but you're rolling the dice. Refusing to present your fare could result in removal from the train. The authority will back that crew member up 100%, because you are required to present your fare whenever it is requested.

I recommend taking this up with septa, who backtracked mightily from their "Only spot checks" once the system was activated.

As for the exit fare, conductors were being instructed to direct passengers to the exit fare machines if
A) They only had a card
B) They were buying a one way fare and the conductor could not get to them in time.
They take cards now so A is moot. Reason B is still very much in play and will be the only method of exit once the turnstiles are armed and the contractors removed from the fare lines.
  by ryan92084
 
Whether right or wrong septa hates TVM. The price would likely be the same as the on board rate anyway so i don't really get why it matters (besides having to talk to someone). Mobile payments will be handled by NFC Soon™ and are also planned to be the same as the on board rate.

I'm not refusing to present a fair just simply saying "I already tapped" and they move on. Granted i haven't ridden a ton since the summer. I'll rephrase "There is no requirement to triple tap for your trip to be processed correctly."

In the beginning there was only an "exit fare" and no option to pay the conductor. What they are calling that system now I have no idea but afaik the fare structure is different.
  by 93r8g7
 
Cash is King.

First, there's no need for cams at outlying stations with the possible exception of the rougher areas such as Wister, Germantown, Allegheny & Queen Lane.
Second, call it what it is. A war on Cash. We print cash, and SEPTA selectively decides it wants to penalize customers that use cash. If anything it's a childish move designed intently to make Key work. The same with government meddling into the free market and subsadizing electric cars, which are a disaster. No organic demand exists for electric cars, which are bad for the environment and require lithium from hostile nations. The same can be said with Key. People hate it and SEPTA tries penalize those choosing to pay cash - either via removing paper transfers and placing them exclusively on the shaky Key system, or by announcing they will no longer sell railroad tickets in advance.

NJ Transit has the right idea - a fare machine at EVERY station that takes cash. The Key system relies on the internet as well. What if that goes out? No paper backup? These people at 1234 are totalitarian lunatics. They just replaced the Key readers with a different model, costing how many more millions of dollars? Conduent has the upper hand on SEPTA, taking the agency for all they got. What's next? Turnstiles need new software and they need to be replaced too? The old GFI turnstiles were paid for and ran for over 25 years with only mechanical fixes every so often. This whole contract stinks.
  by BuddCar711
 
The reason for the conductor scanning the cards is that there are some stations that had their Key card readers vandalized (e.g. Tacony). And a question on presenting the tickets/cards/etc.; when outbound on the Reading side, should the conductors ask the passengers to present the fare after the train leaves Market East, or after it leaves Temple? I was under the impression that SEPTA considered Temple to be a Center City station (albeit not geographically), because someone could have got on the train at Claymont and getting off at Temple. It would be a hassle to present your fare/card twice.
  by ryan92084
 
Right, the on board taps were/are meant to be if you forgot to tap or if the validator wasn't functioning so you wouldn't be up charged for failure to tap in/out. This is happening frequently with all the new people on the system hence the triple taps. There is the exception for intermediate travel where triple tap is more important since there isn't a turn style to force at least one tap.
  by CNJGeep
 
BuddCar711 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:51 am when outbound on the Reading side, should the conductors ask the passengers to present the fare after the train leaves Market East, or after it leaves Temple? I was under the impression that SEPTA considered Temple to be a Center City station (albeit not geographically), because someone could have got on the train at Claymont and getting off at Temple. It would be a hassle to present your fare/card twice.
Oftentimes, particularly on trains stopping at North Broad, there is not enough time to collect fares after Temple-Norristown trains are very difficult to collect all fares on now with the need to tap everyone. Most (certainly not all) Conductors will ask passengers if they're going to temple and bypass them, on AM trains at least.
  by pjabowling
 
I do not know why Septa at this point continues to pursue a costly card based system when an app based system is the future.

An app based system is easier to manage and reload, doesn't require all this unnecessary hardware and can work when the internet connection is spotty.

I go to Dallas, purchase a day pass in seconds, and am able to ride multiple light rail trains and buses.

It's easy to check for validation. There are no unnecessary zone charges and the app tells you in real time when the next train or bus is to arrive.

I can purchase multiple fares if I'm traveling with someone and the fare type is not activated until I am ready to use it unlike purchasing a day pass from Septa which will start the first time you tap your key card.
  by zebrasepta
 
Well SEPTA is spending more money on SEPTA Key
https://www.inquirer.com/transportation ... 11223.html
After a decade of delays, failures, and cost overruns, SEPTA’s Key smart fare system is about to hit another milestone: a price tag nearly double the original plan.

SEPTA recently agreed to pay Conduent Inc. about $29.5 million for two more years of operational and customer support for its Key card system. That will bring the cost of the project to $238 million — up from $122 million budgeted in 2011.

When the authority’s board last week approved the new payment, it was the 27th tweak to the Key card contract in the last 10 years. SEPTA insiders say it’s the largest number of such changes in recent memory.
  by ChesterValley
 
pjabowling wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:00 am I do not know why Septa at this point continues to pursue a costly card based system when an app based system is the future.
...
From what I was talking to another SEPTA employee, and if he is to be believed, the whole KEY was for federal compliance. Some Federal entity required the fare system be upgraded and this is the result, so it really wasn't built on the premise of making a better fare system as much as bringing it into compliance.

I mean if you register you key you can interface with an app, similar in methods are you're saying, but yeah they got a long way to go
  • 1
  • 55
  • 56
  • 57
  • 58
  • 59