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  • Oil trains to Perth Amboy???

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

 #1140063  by pumpers
 
TAMR213 wrote:One look at Google Maps/Earth will show that the SIRR does not connect to the Lehigh Line, but does connect to the RVL just west of the Garden State Parkway. So this whole discussion of using the SIRR for oil trains into Bayway off of the Lehigh Line seems like a moot point to me.
Oh, come on, don't be a party pooper. Let's foam instead about the oil trains running Bound Brook to the SIRR on the CNJ (RVL). I think the Lehigh Line/RVL connection at Bound Brook is still in. JS
PS. THanks for the set-up.
 #1140156  by Don31
 
blockline4180 wrote:
Don31 wrote: The line from Cranford to Linden is the former SIRR. I believe (correct me please if I'm wrong) that its now owned by the M&E, which used state funds to rehab a portion of it. Do the locals have any say? Technically, no. But the sad reality is that they complain to local politicians (Roselle and the county) who are always looking for a reason to be seen and heard and it just snowballs from there.

Don,

I know its probably a long shot, but if NS/CSX ever had the need to send the oil trains via the former SIRR, where does the line come into the Lehigh Line?? Did it once connect to the RVL (NJT) at Cranford as well?? My railroad atlas shows the connection as being abandoned... Did Union County ever rehab any of the connections or no??

Thanks!
The SIRR connects to the RVL in Cranford, just east of the Cranford Station. From there they would then have to go up the Aldene ramp to access the Lehigh Line. I'd say that there is a less than zero chance of this ever happening.
 #1140182  by ccutler
 
The SIRR did have a connection to the Lehigh Valley. A quick glance at maps.live.com or whatever your favorite satellite imagery site for Cranford, NJ will reveal that the ROW is still intact. However this discussion is all speculation. Why would there is any benefit to running the oil trains on the SIRR instead of running them down the already-improved Port Reading line? It's also not so clear what the SIRR-related interchange with the Chemical Coast line is under the turnpike and how operationally compatible it would be for running long oil can trains.

the M&E construction projects...well...not a high bar for sound economic planning. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for freight to run from the SIRR down the raritan valley line to bound brook.
 #1140204  by Don31
 
ccutler wrote:The SIRR did have a connection to the Lehigh Valley. A quick glance at maps.live.com or whatever your favorite satellite imagery site for Cranford, NJ will reveal that the ROW is still intact.
Very true ccutler. I was talking about where the rails are still intact.
 #1140224  by TAMR213
 
ccutler wrote:The SIRR did have a connection to the Lehigh Valley. A quick glance at maps.live.com or whatever your favorite satellite imagery site for Cranford, NJ will reveal that the ROW is still intact. However this discussion is all speculation.
Key word: did.

This thread is full of:
Image
 #1140236  by Jtgshu
 
I would ASSUME that if any trains were to come from the west like that, that would be able to access NJT's RVL (at Bound Brook) to access the SIRT (at Cranford....well at Clark interlocking outside of Westfield to be perfectly honest), they would just as easily go down the Port Reading Secondary, which is newly signaled.......hmmmmmm
 #1140331  by wolfboy8171981
 
Conrail removed the LV/SIRR interchange switch circa 2004 when it was clear that Conrail was going to Staten Island via the Chemical Coast and the M&E was not. All things considered equal, given where the Crude Oil unloading site will be located, running the trains via the SIRT would not be a viable option regardless of the CNJ or LV connection.

The LV interchange is still intact, just the switch and maybe 300-500 feet of track removed on the Conrail property.
 #1140336  by pumpers
 
While we are on the subject, just how do the SIRR hoppers for Bayway come in and go out? Must be via the ex CNJ, and it looks from aerial photos like they have to go as far as Westfield on the freight track before it ends and ties into the NJT main ???
From there do they go in/out via Bound Brook, or I guess in theory they could also reverse once at Westfield and go via the Aldene ramp?
JS
 #1140359  by umtrr-author
 
And here's a news flash: Hess is planning to close the Port Reading refinery, per a piece in the NY Times "Dealbook" today (1/28):

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/ ... l-network/

Fair use quote:
The Hess Corporation said on Monday that it planned to sell its network of terminals, as the oil company began to focus on finding and producing new sources of petroleum.

Hess, which has hired Goldman Sachs to lead the sale process, also said it would close its refinery in Port Reading, N.J.
I wonder what implications, if any, there are to this topic. Seems to me that if the Hess refinery is a "plug and play" into someone else's refinery plans, and it's updated as far as environmental regulations, things could change a bit.
 #1140516  by wolfboy8171981
 
pumpers wrote:While we are on the subject, just how do the SIRR hoppers for Bayway come in and go out? Must be via the ex CNJ, and it looks from aerial photos like they have to go as far as Westfield on the freight track before it ends and ties into the NJT main ???
From there do they go in/out via Bound Brook, or I guess in theory they could also reverse once at Westfield and go via the Aldene ramp?
JS

Yes the CNJ, as in the Chemical Coast at Bayway.

The SIRR is a glorified storage track for Phillips 66. There is a connection to the plant off the SIRR and it has been used to store hoppers. The refinery is a Conrail customer, always has always will. The M&E through their Bayshore Terminal Railroad is not a common carrier, they are the plant switcher. Any and all traffic for the plant goes thru Bayway.
 #1140524  by pumpers
 
wolfboy8171981 wrote:
pumpers wrote:While we are on the subject, just how do the SIRR hoppers for Bayway come in and go out? Must be via the ex CNJ, and it looks from aerial photos like they have to go as far as Westfield on the freight track before it ends and ties into the NJT main ???
From there do they go in/out via Bound Brook, or I guess in theory they could also reverse once at Westfield and go via the Aldene ramp?
JS

Yes the CNJ, as in the Chemical Coast at Bayway.

The SIRR is a glorified storage track for Phillips 66. There is a connection to the plant off the SIRR and it has been used to store hoppers. The refinery is a Conrail customer, always has always will. The M&E through their Bayshore Terminal Railroad is not a common carrier, they are the plant switcher. Any and all traffic for the plant goes thru Bayway.
Got it, thanks for the explanation, JS
 #1140597  by Ken W2KB
 
umtrr-author wrote:And here's a news flash: Hess is planning to close the Port Reading refinery, per a piece in the NY Times "Dealbook" today (1/28):

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/ ... l-network/

Fair use quote:
The Hess Corporation said on Monday that it planned to sell its network of terminals, as the oil company began to focus on finding and producing new sources of petroleum.

Hess, which has hired Goldman Sachs to lead the sale process, also said it would close its refinery in Port Reading, N.J.
I wonder what implications, if any, there are to this topic. Seems to me that if the Hess refinery is a "plug and play" into someone else's refinery plans, and it's updated as far as environmental regulations, things could change a bit.
Not promising from news reports that (1) this relatively small refinery would require $45 million in pollution control equipment to continue operating, and (2) it does not have the capability of refining crude, only refining partially refined products.
 #1140746  by CJPat
 
That is very interesting News. Hess Oil (Amerada Hess-AHC on NYSE) is a mid level oil production corporation that is based only on the East Coast from MA to FL and stretching westward only to about Harrisburg PA. It has the small refinery in Port Reading, but It's Major Refinery is in St Croix. Gasoline sales at their stations (approx 530 last I recall) are only a minor side interest akin to being a hobby. Hess' main interest and money maker was always bulk oil sales. Their main oil production came from their North Sea Oil Drilling Operations, but through the Amerada aquisition (technically Amerada bought Hess Oil & Chemical through a political/financial coup orchestrated by Leon Hess when he got himself placed as CEO over Amerada and pushed out the British Royal interests), they had acess to some oil and very large Natural Gas Reserves in Canada.

I see no mention of their plans for the St Croix Refining Operation (massive - another brilliant political coup by Leon thru his marriage into the John Willentz family - former NJ Attorney General prosecuting the Lindburgh case and later, the Chairman of the national DNC). Selling off their Terminals which run down the East Coast and only focusing on crude, rather than refined oil sales will constitute a major, major change in operations for this company in how they generate money. Leon was always hard as nails and was responsible for organizing and running the Red Ball Express to provide Patton with fuel during the push for Berlin during WWII. I really don't know much about John Hess. Something big must have hit them in the bottom line to change their main business plan. Leon wanted control of the entire line of production from exploration to sales of refined oils and gasolines. Hess owns and maintains all their own gas stations unlike most oil companies that only have franchise gas stations. It was always a control thing.
 #1140781  by Don31
 
CJPat wrote:That is very interesting News. Hess Oil (Amerada Hess-AHC on NYSE) is a mid level oil production corporation that is based only on the East Coast from MA to FL and stretching westward only to about Harrisburg PA. It has the small refinery in Port Reading, but It's Major Refinery is in St Croix. Gasoline sales at their stations (approx 530 last I recall) are only a minor side interest akin to being a hobby. Hess' main interest and money maker was always bulk oil sales. Their main oil production came from their North Sea Oil Drilling Operations, but through the Amerada aquisition (technically Amerada bought Hess Oil & Chemical through a political/financial coup orchestrated by Leon Hess when he got himself placed as CEO over Amerada and pushed out the British Royal interests), they had acess to some oil and very large Natural Gas Reserves in Canada.

I see no mention of their plans for the St Croix Refining Operation (massive - another brilliant political coup by Leon thru his marriage into the John Willentz family - former NJ Attorney General prosecuting the Lindburgh case and later, the Chairman of the national DNC). Selling off their Terminals which run down the East Coast and only focusing on crude, rather than refined oil sales will constitute a major, major change in operations for this company in how they generate money. Leon was always hard as nails and was responsible for organizing and running the Red Ball Express to provide Patton with fuel during the push for Berlin during WWII. I really don't know much about John Hess. Something big must have hit them in the bottom line to change their main business plan. Leon wanted control of the entire line of production from exploration to sales of refined oils and gasolines. Hess owns and maintains all their own gas stations unlike most oil companies that only have franchise gas stations. It was always a control thing.
Good stuff CJPAt, very interesting. Thanks for posting it.
 #1140851  by Sirsonic
 
The LV connection between the removed turnout on Conrail and the SIRY was removed and the track material salvaged during the rebuilding of the SIRY.

The contract with the M&E to operate and maintain the SIRY and RV has expired in 2012 and neither party exercised their option to renew. While the M&E has recently stored cars in Roselle at the far end of the SIRY and more recently retrieved them, they are no longer legally allowed to do so.