Lake Shore Limited

From the March 2023 reports at https://www.amtrak.com/reports-documents, which means numbers are through March: The Cardinal is an average of 68 minutes late in March, and 73 minutes late from April 2022-March 2023.

Why not just take an NEC train out of Penn to Stamford? You don’t say where in CT your destination is. A month out you should be able to get a decent fare and you could access the Acela lounge.

I'm with Jeff on this one, just take an Acela or Regional to NYP. You'd be saving yourself a trip across two railroads and three trains. The fare should be a drop in the bucket, and like he said you'd get access to the Met Lounge at Moynihan.

I usually take the Acela to Boston via a connection off an Empire Train from Rhinecliff and it's smooth as butter. A lot of times I'll book the Empire Train separate and use my Guest Rewards Points to essentially get a free ride to NYP.

Edit: This of course all depends on where in CT you're departing from. I'm from the NW Corner so I know getting to anywhere is at least an hour drive from that neck of the woods.

In the "Federal, Night Owl, Twilight Shoreliner (Trains 65, 66, 67)" thread, Mr. Norman opined thusly regarding trains 448/449:

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 6:02 am I realize and respect that Mr. Trainguy holds differently in that he has noted here of a desire to have "The Vacationer" restored (a BOS-NH-NYP-PRR-WAS-RF&P-RIC-ACL-JAX-FEC-MIA train that did not handle passengers at NY Penn), but just think of the savings Amtrak would realize if they simply told the political forces in Boston that we are truncating 448-9 at ALB and eliminating the through Boston Chicago Sleeper and Coach lines.

No more having to maintain parts inventory for Sleepers at BOS or Mechanical forces qualified to work on them; no need to have linen supplies.

I have to wonder how much of a net savings there was when 448/9 only ran BOS-ALB back in 2004-2008. The timing was such that the service would need two trainsets, each of which only made a single five-hour, two-hundred-mile run per day; that's two baggage cars, four coaches and two cafe cars, spending most of their time idling in the yards.

Also, frankly, having taken the through sleeper BOS-CHI on more than one occasion, I have to disagree with the idea that transferring at ALB is lacking in passenger inconvenience. For starters, not having a through sleeper meant that "sleeper" passengers BOS-CHI would have to spend five hours in coach. Also, even the "new" ALB station isn't exactly the most inviting place to wait for connecting services; if I wanted to change trains between BOS and CHI, I'd far rather do so at NYP.

More importantly, I suspect, was the fact that BOS-ALB is only two hundred miles whereas BOS-CHI is over a thousand. My understanding of PRIIA (which, IIRC, came into effect in 2008) is that Amtrak was required to get state support for any non-NEC route under seven hundred fifty miles, which would include the standalone 448/449. Considering how useless 448/449's timing is for Massachusetts intra-state travel, I can't imagine the Commonwealth covering what I expect would be substantial operating losses.

On the other hand, cancelling 448/449 completely would save some amount of expense for Amtrak. So there's that.

For that matter, no need for Sleeper passengers assigned to the existing Boston sleeper line to have to "listen to the music through the night", as that line is placed at ALB on the head immediately behind the engines.

I do not personally recall being irritated by "the music" on my BOS-CHI travels; of course, the last one was a decade ago, and there was a baggage car between me and the power. What I do recall being irritated by was how narrow the foot of the bed was in the Viewliner I roomette.

I hope it goes without saying I respect your views, Mr. Schweppe, but again I must point out that having a Sleeper tied up in Boston - an out of the way place so far as Viewliners go - means that there must be spare parts and qualified Carmen and electricians to work on the car during its turn. It could even mean having to have a protect car assigned there.

Further, Amtrak must have a vendor to supply linens, not required by any other train serving Boston.

By the way, on my listening to the music comment, I know a fellow who lives along the B&A, not all that much of a railfan, but for whatever his reasons is afraid of flying, and who regularly uses 448-9. He has no use for the music, so he rides Coach to and from ALB and boards or alights his Sleeper there.

I personally have no use for the music either. My most recent Amtrak ride was #52(the day Kobe Bryant was killed) and the Sleepers are buried deep in the consist where they belong. However, one annoyance I once put up with was riding Business CHI to ARB. I happened to call a client (I'm now retired) and just then "the music played". He said "WTF is that???" I said I'm on a train and that's the horn". He said "I sure wouldn't put up with that".

Mr. Schweppe, what if the Commonwealth of Tax was prepared to fund Busteetoots for more than just one E-W train? Might that be a fair trade-off to be rid of 448-449?

Of course, it appears that the Commonwealth is hell bent on having a passenger train, needed or not, on every line through Massachusetts. I wouldn't be all that surprised if they attempted to have one Pittsfield-Canaan over the New Haven!!!

Perhaps the Flying Yankee will be resurrected over the B&M.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 12:12 pm I hope it goes without saying I respect your views, Mr. Schweppe, but again I must point out that having a Sleeper tied up in Boston - an out of the way place so far as Viewliners go - means that there must be spare parts and qualified Carmen and electricians to work on the car during its turn. It could even mean having to have a protect car assigned there.

Further, Amtrak must have a vendor to supply linens, not required by any other train serving Boston.

I fully agree that there are costs associated with running a single sleeper to BOS. Besides sleeper maintenance and linens, there's also the need for the BOS commissary to support two different cafe car menus: the national one and the Northeast Corridor version. (Presumably, similar concerns apply in PDX regarding 27/28, although the cars in question are Superliners rather than Viewliner sleepers and Amfleet cafes and coaches.)

I assume that downgrading 448/449 to a coach-only BOS-ALB local would eliminate those specific costs. On the other hand, as I noted above, downgrading 448/449 to a BOS-ALB local is also going to have costs, both in terms of additional equipment needed and in terms of ridership losses due to degraded service. I don't even begin to have the information needed to determine if Amtrak could make such a 448/449 service turn a profit on its own, although I rather doubt it. And, if it would be a loss-making service, my understanding of PRIIA is that Massachusetts and/or New York would have to cover those losses. I very much doubt either would do so; thus the "downgrade" would be in effect an elimination.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 2:30 pm Mr. Schweppe, what if the Commonwealth of Tax was prepared to fund Busteetoots for more than just one E-W train? Might that be a fair trade-off to be rid of 448-449?

I've been "Busteetooted" once on the Lake Shore Limited; once was one too many times. No, thanks.

Perhaps the Flying Yankee will be resurrected over the B&M.

Last I heard, the State of New Hampshire owned the Yankee and wasn't doing anything to restore it, so I'm not going to hold my breath.

Actually Mr. Schweppe, I did consider the different menus, but concluded that it was immaterial as no more Sleeper, no more menu items.

Regarding my Flying Yankee comment, I was simply referring to passenger service West of Fitchburg through Hoosac Tunnel. Never mind of course, that route is FRA Class 1 in parts and that the Hoosac Tunnel has a habit of cave-ins.

But oh well, from what I read, it appears the Commonwealth's goal is to have a passenger train on every stretch of track, and as I noted earlier that could even include Pittsfield-Canaan over the New Haven!!

Finally, and as I previously related this at another topic, back when I was a Cadet in the Fairfield Navy, we were anchored in Scituate when George decided to shut down the Old Colony ('56 as I recall after Pat hurriedly left town). With us were two folks that "just had to get back to New York".

Well it took about a day after Senator JFK pulled strings - but the OC was again back in business. Indeed, the Commonwealth has had a long attachment to trains!!!

disclaimer: necessary to edit post thanks to Mr. Google's or Mr. Gates' "habit" of deciding they know more of what I intend to say than I do myself. In this case "caverns" edited to say the intended "cave-ins".

Were Amtrak to loose the NEC between New Haven and Boston (due to bridge replacement for example), they would want crews that were qualified on the LSL route to handle trains between Springfield and Boston. I also see that the seasonal Berkshire Flyer uses the same route to Pittsfield. 448/449 seems a relatively easy revenue-maintaining way to keep crews qualified on those routes, keep those routes maintained for passenger service, and move equipment that can't operate through NYP (P42s for the Downeaster and the NPCUs IIRC).

Albany Rennselaer is the T&E crew base for 448/449, there was some grumbling about Zone 2 getting qualified Boston to Springfield which is Zone 3 work. In talking with a couple of machinist up at the shop Amtrak is quite happy with the work they do. As a result all P42s P40s NPCUs will be coming to ALB for repair.
Working a regular yard job we add and subtract engines off 449 almost daily. The normal move to get them into ALB would be Chicago to Boston then back to ALB. Three more just showed up over the past week and they are a mess. Guys are like were do we start.

Mr. Junkie. you now hold a yard job @ ALB?

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:11 am Mr. Junkie. you now hold a yard job @ ALB?

Have held a regular yard job for 6ish years with a couple six month breaks. Being number 12 in the terminal helps and some of the guys in front of me would rather work the road.

Make of this comment what you wish, how often on my road did I hear "Held Away From Home Terminal" pay as "Alimony Pay"

I have not gone back far enough, but I see there is bus service between Albany and Boston. How long will this be? Just wondering?

urr304 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:29 pm I have not gone back far enough, but I see there is bus service between Albany and Boston. How long will this be? Just wondering?

It is the annual kicking of rocks by CSX they shut the railroad down except for a couple of days a week every June, usually weekends. If you need to make a trip consult a live agent. I may be able to find a bid sheet still kicking around if anyone has questions on which days and which direction the train will be traveling.