Lackawanna Cut-Off Poll

Agreed, however, the # of stops does need to be limited. Dover is a must, and maybe some trains could stop at Morristown and Summit(very limited amount), but most should just make Dover, Newark, ST, and Hoboken

Joe, I think NJT would maintain a decent schedule even if some of the places I mentioned were stopped in by the cutoff trains.

If only one or even no cutoff trains would stop in NJ then why should NJT pay for it instead of PennDOT,NJDOT and others who want it bad enough. NJT should pay for projects that affect NJ residents like MOM and W Trenton. I personally wouldn't liek it if a service that mostly serves PA residents is worked on and coems online before projects that serve NJ residents like Mt Arlington Station, electrification of Boonton and NJCL, MOM and W Trenton.

If the cutoff trains made stops in Dover, Morristown, summit, and Newark (yes PA people do work in these towns) before going on to Hoboken then NJT should pay for it since it will also serve NJ towns not to mention western NJ residents living in or around Blairstown and Greendel.

Sussex County should have a station. I believe that is why they are pushing Andover. There is a town that used to have three railroads and now none. I don't think the NYS&W passenger route will materialize and the Sussex folks were counting on a rail route to NYC.

We need a dose of reality here. First, the Lackawanna never did Scranton-Hoboken in 3 hours. Why does anyone think NJT would? Every other Lackawanna line that NJT runs has slower schedules than the Lackawanna ran. Also, don't forget, most of the mileage Hoboken-Scranton isn't on the cutoff. What's the fastest Dover-Hoboken time now? Cutoff trains would have to get from Dover to Hoboken, or Secaucus, or NYP. If they are to make Scranton-Hoboken in even the best Lackawanna time of 3 hr 15 min, NJT will have to run the train from Dover to Hoboken much faster than it does now.
Next, there isn't much of a New Jersey constituency for the Cutoff restoration. Even though it has the potential of reducing congestion on Rt 80, no one except railfans really seems to want it. Warren County doesn't. So, in the fight for scarce transit dollars, the Cutoff doesn't seem to have any powerful advocates in NJ. PA seems to want it much more, but they aren't likely to offer to pay for a rr in NJ.
I'd love to see the Cutoff restored. I'd love to see fast trains on it. I can't see action on this project till at least 2020.

The people in Sussex county will not get a direct line to NYP but to Hoboken. If they really want rail service they should tell those Sparta Nimbys to stuff it and stop holding up progress on passenger service on the NYSW. If yo uguys think 80 is bad 15 is a total parkinglot.

The NYSW is an active line but the Nimbys in and around Sparta are screwing things up. Andover will not get the rail service on the cutoff due to the fact that the double track ROW is on a man made raised land that's about 50 or even 60 ft high. Maybe on the old Sussex branch but no way will that happen. The people in Sussex County will have to rely on the NYSW project and change at ST for NYP bound train.

I'm surprised people in Warren County do not want the service considering most of the Nimbys (the local politicians are out of office) Plus people in the Blairstown area really like the cutoff.

Either way PA will have to fork over more cash then that $40 Million they put up and come up with a good operating agreement since this service will mostly serve PA passengers. NJT will have to put up money as well since a few destinations on the M&E line in NJ will be served but not as much as PA would have to do.

Aint there still a problem between NJT and NYSW?

I personally would like it to be as express as possible and maybe make a stop at Dover, a stop at Summit and Newark Broad in addition to its final destination stop at Hoboken. But if this train makes stops at the Oranges and the Morristowns and all, well then I don't think that is a good idea.

CRRLIFan wrote:....but most should just make Dover, Newark, ST, and Hoboken

They wouldn't be able to stop at ST unless they go up WYE to Secaucus, switch control to the opposite end of the train and drive back out through the M/B/P line to Hoboken.

Then it would really be a long ride!

My bad.....

Ok, so, do we agree....some trains should run real express with the last stop at Dover than non-stop to Hoboken?(or maybe a stop at Newark Broad st) while others make Dover-some Morristown-Summit-Orange-Newark Broad-Hoboken(that'd be the local that'd also double as an express for the morristown line or w.e it's called)

CRRLIfan wrote:Ain't there still a problem between NJT and NYSW?

The "problem" was supposedly over yard space in Sparta. Apparently, that was supposed to have been solved some time last year with NJT finding some land in Hardyston Township for a yard. (Of course, this would have been solved quicker if NJT had instead opted to run trains all the way to Port Jervis via NYSW and used that yard instead...)

that'd be the local that'd also double as an express for the morristown line or w.e it's called

It's the Morristown Line indeed. There are a few Dover-Hoboken expresses already in service with Arrows that could be turned into Scranton trains (but no longer with Arrows unless a miraculous electrification to Scranton occurs )...

CRRLIFan wrote:My bad.....

Ok, so, do we agree....some trains should run real express with the last stop at Dover than non-stop to Hoboken?(or maybe a stop at Newark Broad st) while others make Dover-some Morristown-Summit-Orange-Newark Broad-Hoboken(that'd be the local that'd also double as an express for the morristown line or w.e it's called)

Well, I really don't think they should stop at Morristown or Orange. But if they had to stop some place, then it should be Morristown.

How about Hackettstown? Methinks they may want to have a train stop there.

But in all fairness, I really think they should keep the stops down to a bare minimum. The commute is going to be more than long enough as it is running as an express. But, some stops will have to be made due to traffic from the Morristown line, possilby the Boonton line (b/w Hackettstown and Denville) and maybe the Gladstone Branch trains. But, once they get to Millburn and have the center track, they'll be good to go and should go as fast as they can and don't stop!!!

HEY LOOK. I reached a hundred posts. I am the first contributor on RR.net! Hehe (at first I thought it said conductor below my name.)

Cut off trains wouldn't be able to stop at Hackettstown, Hackettstown is west of Port Morris, where the Cut off joins the M and E.

Jtgshu wrote:Cut off trains wouldn't be able to stop at Hackettstown, Hackettstown is west of Port Morris, where the Cut off joins the M and E.

Did not know that. Learn something new each day.

Yup, no Netcong stop either. Trains will go through Lake Hopatcong though.

(Would be nice to rebuild the "old main" through Hackettstown and Washington too, but there's a lot of that line that's been "redeveloped". The bridge across the Delaware for that line is still there, though.)

The stations west of Lake Hopatcong would not benifit from the cutoff.

The express trains should stop in Dover, Morristown, Summit, and Newark before reaching Hoboken. Remember that PA people do work in Morristown area.

Eelctrifcation will go no further then PM Yard. This electrifcation project is only happening because there is no more room in Dover to store any more train sets. This will be good for Mt Arlington(when they get their station at the P/R) and Lake Hopatcong because they can have direct NYP acess and weekend service once that section of the M&E is electrified.

I don't know how stabilized is the old Main Bridge on the Delaware but the two viaducts on the cutoff are still in great condition. I did hear the Old Main was an operational nigthmare due to flooding in the area where the tunnels were.

Does that bridge still have rails and is it double tracked? How many truss spans does it have? According to an old black and white picture I saw awhile back it looks likes theres 3 or 4.

There is still one track on the old main bridge in Delaware NJ that goes close to the NJ side and is used on occasion.