• Lackawanna Cut-Off Poll

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

When will they start to rebuild the Lackawanna Cut-Off?

  by David
Let's try a poll.

  by TAMR213
I say 2010, but it really all depends on $$$.

  by NJTRailfan
If the $$$ and common sense prevail then 2008 or 2010. But if the new WTC in NYC is completed in 2010 and the cutoff still has yet to be touched then I'm not going to even bother. In my opinion the project should be finished or by 2012 in case the Olympics coem to NYC.

If and when the cutoff coems on line NJT had better have some of their cars converted to lounges, buffet cars or even a car serving light meals/drinks. 3 hours is too damn long to be spendign on NJT equipment from Hoboekn-Scranton or even headign to points in PA. Atleast with the car if yo uget hungry or whatever you can pull off. With NJT you're pretty much stuck there on the seat. Perosnally NJT should have metroliner equipment that has coach cars with reclining seats, lounge and cafe cars.

Some of the buses that do run frequently have working bathrooms with sinks that really work and TV screen that shows the news and TV shows. I hope NJT wil ltake note and add these amneities to make the ridership on the service climb rather then do nothing and end up discontinuing the route past a certain point (E Stroudsburg) a few years later.

  by NIMBYkiller
Martz has private TV's, or is it Peter Pan style? Also, do they have those radio things for each seat? Those are really good. ADP and Concord Trailways has them.

  by NJTRailfan
From what I heard those buslines do have those anemities. NJT had better have something like that on their train otherwise don't even bother starting up the cutoff or just get it no further then E Stroudsburg since they won't make much of a dent with those bus lines like NJT did to Academy, Lakeland and Decamp.

With those anmenties the 2-3 hr ride will pass quick. But not if your confined to a cramped unreclinable seat on a comet 4. Atleast Amtrak's Metroliners offers more on a NYP-Phili run for the entire 1.5-2 hr journey then NJT will on a 3 plus hr ride from Hoboken-Scranton.

  by JDFX
Some thoughts.

1.) This project will most certainly never get done only because our state is just about bankrupted. If we go bankrupt, thats it. Game Over.

2.) If, by the grace of god, we somehow manage to advert bankruptcy, and this project gets completed, why is it going to take 3 hours from Scranton to Hoboken?

Figure, 7 stops in the Poconos, and maybe 1 stop in New Jersey (Blairstown) and then run express to Hoboken. No Stops. If your from the Poconos, and want to get off at say Denville, you'll need to transfer at Blairstown to a local train.

With some real investment (I.E. a large, comfortable station in Blairstown, complete with diner, newspaper stand, etc.) and connections with local trains within 15 minutes, I see this working very well.

3 hours from Scranton? It can be cut down to under 2 with some proper planning, scheduling, and good equipment.

And avoid this "Shirley Time" crap.

  by NIMBYkiller
I think one or 2 more stops between Blairstown and Hoboken would be good. Maybe Dover and ST

  by JDFX
CRRLIFan wrote:I think one or 2 more stops between Blairstown and Hoboken would be good. Maybe Dover and ST
Sorry man, in my opinion, thats 2 stops too many... Although the intentions are good, keep in mind we are trying to compete with route 80.

You figure with slow down, the stop, and then acceleration your adding another 10 minutes at least to the schedule. 10 minutes could make or break a selling point to the commuting public, who will probably be spending upwards of 20 dollars one way from Scranton.

Granted, with programs like "TransitCheck" and the fact that gasoline will reach 3.00 a gallon this summer, 20 dollars a ticket will be a bargain, but not if it cannot compete speed-wise with traveling by car into NYC via route 80.

The only other way I would consider hitting more stops in New Jersey is if you staggered the stops in the Poconos like they do on the Boonton Line. Trains stopping at every other station. Then maybe hitting Dover and Seacaucus Transfer might be ideal, but if every train had to stop at every station in PA, it won't be time efficient.

  by TAMR213
Personally, I think it would be good if they were to stop at ST. Allows it to connect to the whole system, without more transfers, adding more unnessicary time, etc.

  by Irish Chieftain
How could Lackawanna Cutoff trains stop at Secaucus Junction...? Only if you added an engine change at Dover and sent the trains to/from NYP. Why do they need to stop at Secaucus Junction? They don't, IMHO. Connections to PATH, HBLRT and other NJT lines are readily available at Hoboken, plus there will be the NRL MOS-1 at Broad Street Station for people going to Newark Penn and the Newark Division, not to mention the connections to the local stations on the Morristown and Montclair/Boonton Lines at Dover.

BTW...the poll doesn't identify which "they" is supposed to be involved in restoring the rail service; evidently, it would be NJT up to the Delaware River and PennDOT further west...but technically, since there isn't an operating agreement in place yet, there is no "they" at present. NJ is the state dragging feet here...
Last edited by Irish Chieftain on Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

  by Scrap The U34CH
Blairstown to get west jersey people. Byram\Andover is needed to get those coming down Rt. 206 out of Sussex\Dingmans PA area's. 1 stop in 30 miles seems like quite a waste.

  by NIMBYkiller
Irish Cheiftain is right...they already have those connections at Hoboken. Also, they could get a NYP bound train at Dover. The reason I say Dover is b/c many people that live in the poconos along this proposed line work in the Dover/Morristown area, or so I'm told. By stopping at Dover, people can hop a train to Morristown, NYP, or anywhere else served by Dover trains.

  by NJTRailfan
Heres my take.

The stops in NJ should be Blairstown, Greendel, Dover, Morristown, Summit, Newark and then onto Hoboken. Remember NJT has said this service will go directly to Hoboken and that it's too expesnive to electrify the cutoff and further west. On the M&E line electriifcation will go no further west then Pt Morris in the future. This is only because of the fact that no more room in Dover yard for new trainsets. Pt Morris can be expanded so the electrification will go there thus electrifing the line giving 2 station direct NYP access and possibly weekend service (Lake Hopatcong and the furture Mt Arlington P/R Station)

  by JDFX
NJTRailfan wrote:Heres my take.

The stops in NJ should be Blairstown, Greendel, Dover, Morristown, Summit, Newark and then onto Hoboken.
Ok, but here is the problem which I feel many of you are missing.

If the service is slow, I.E. takes 3 hours to go from Scranton to Hoboken, or two and a half hours from Cresco or Mt. Pocono to Hoboken, no one will ride it...

It has to be under 2 hours in order for it to attract ridership. If its going to take more than 2 hours on a train, they'll forget the train, and do the hard drive on route 80.

So, NJT Railfan, what is your plans with all these stops you have added, to maintain a 2 hour schedule?

  by Jtgshu
I would love to see the storied Cut off restored to service, and I think it will, hopefully sooner, rather than later, and once it is restored, I think it will be used for passegner service, along with through freight operation....

BUT, why should NJT spend a DIME if there aren't going to be any stops in NJ??? Let PA spend the money on it, as its a service that is gonig to be used exclusively by PA passegners. And if the cut off, with no NJ stops, is going to be built with any NJ funds, it shoudl NOT come out of NJT's budget anyway, but rather NJDOT's budget for highway improvements. Its sole purpose would be to ease congestion I80, similar to adding another lane, etc. Even if it only had 1 stop in NJ, the DOT should still pay for a large portion of restoration and rebuilding out of their highway budget. I don't see two stops in addition to Dover being too unreasonable, actually sort of serving the area that the line passes through....(only PA residents can ride the train, all NWNJ residents must drive and still deal with the traffic that will remain on I80 and other roads - thats a kick in the ass.....)

NJT has a lot of other projects in the pipeline that are starving for the money and resources that the cut off would take while building it and operating it, that could be put to use to build a line to actually serve NEW JERSEY residents. If PA wants it so bad, NJT should stand their ground and point out that this project is going to mainly serve PA residents, and a building and operating agreement that fairly reflects that. I honestly think that is what NJT is currently doing, and if they are, I give them credit for not letting them get stepped on, like so often happens.

Thats my penny and a half!