Connecticut River Line (Pan Am)

Maybe they are trying to reduce to cost of rebuilding the Conn River Line by eliminating the cost of switches. (wink)

Well it looks like my post got deleted, but the jist of what I wrote is I heard that the rebuild is off for this year...


edited: I posted it in another thread, oops.

The seem to be at the feed plant in bernardston quite a bit this spring. I have seen them there twice this week including today. They even made a trip to Brattlebooro to get some steel that had been sitting there and take it to Claremont

I can't say I'm surprised if they decided not to do the rebuild this year, or even at all.

The economy is in the tank and Amtrak is fighting to stay alive, Pan Am seems to have ripped off NS for the money, and NS doesn't have enough say to further influence things.

gprimr1 wrote: The economy is in the tank and Amtrak is fighting to stay alive, Pan Am seems to have ripped off NS for the money, and NS doesn't have enough say to further influence things.

The economy has nothing to do with the release of the FEDERAL funds for the PUBLIC investment into the Conn River line. Pan Am crews are tied up in ME on the expansion of the Downeaster service. Funding for the Vermonter is with state of VT funds, and I haven't heard of any impending cutback. The only thing Amtrak would be worried about are the Tea Drinkers in Washington, and if you've been following the news, they are quickly running out of steam (pun intended).

It's not nice to spread fear.

I'm not spreading fear. I'm stating a fact. The 2012 budget will be an test for Amtrak. I am confident that Amtrak will survive and I never suggested Amtrak would be shut down. I'm just suggesting that budget items may be held to a higher litmus test in the 2012 budget.

And I must say that it's not necessary to condemn the Tea Party. As with any group, there are extremists on both sides. I support the Tea Party and I support Amtrak. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I'm not out to have an argument, I would like to see the CT River line rebuild by NS and Amtrak, and be able to be used profitably by NS to create business and jobs in the Vally.

gprimr1 wrote:I can't say I'm surprised if they decided not to do the rebuild this year, or even at all.

The economy is in the tank and Amtrak is fighting to stay alive, Pan Am seems to have ripped off NS for the money, and NS doesn't have enough say to further influence things.

They have wasted $12,000,000 on a station in Greenfield to service these trains and 50 or so passengers a day, to not rebuild the line at this point would just add insult to injury.

BigLou80 wrote:

gprimr1 wrote:I can't say I'm surprised if they decided not to do the rebuild this year, or even at all.

The economy is in the tank and Amtrak is fighting to stay alive, Pan Am seems to have ripped off NS for the money, and NS doesn't have enough say to further influence things.

They have wasted $12,000,000 on a station in Greenfield to service these trains and 50 or so passengers a day, to not rebuild the line at this point would just add insult to injury.

True. As I said, I am not against rebuilding the line. I think that there is a great opportunity to rebuild the line and make the money back by leasing time on the line to NS and letting NS drum up business.

Don't confuse the "intermodal" station in Greenfield with the knowledge corridor HSR stimulus funding. Two separate issues with just a little concentricity by the rail line.

The "intermodal" station is a federal program that financially via grants encourages multi use facilities being constructed for cab to bus to car etc etc with the caveat that it be constructed (whether or not rail passenger service currently exists) adjacent to an active rail line. The "intermodal" station in Greenfield was thought up long before the knowledge corridor reputedly for some or all of the following:
1) To get a big grant
2) To have a permanent home for the FRTA offices
3) To have another home for the FRCOG offices
4) To get all the "people" who sit in front of Greenfield city hall waiting for the bus to have another place to congregate.

Unfortunately these intermodal station grants have very little to do with improving transportation per se. It's a kind of economic development tool that is frequently mis used in the name of transportation.

One need only see what happened with the fabulous cape styling Hyannis intermodal center. This facility has no passenger train service, gets very little passenger use for any mode, but does have a variety of homeless, addiction, and violence issues associated with it.

The knowledge corridor project supposedly includes a rail station adjacent to the intermodal center for Greenfield to the tune of 2 million or so.

The big question really is that given the current political climate in Washington, which i would say is not exactly pro high speed rail, will the delays, (ostensibly NS PAS love fest issues) on the Mass portion of the Knowledge Corridor result in those funds that are unspent being pulled/sacrificed as a part of the Obama congress economic crisis compromise.

There is a very real chance that when all the dust settles, Rail America will look like a genius for getting, paying for, and laying their HSR cwr on the ground in Vermont literally minutes before the Tea Party got started in DC in January. It may very well be if things play out the way they look, that the Vermonter will stay on the NECR to Palmer for a long long time. And in the mean time, NECR trains in Vermont at least will be a little faster and a little more secure on their HSR newly built right of way. Very smart monkeys up in them thar hills in Vermont. Very smart.

Not sure what all the excitement is about regarding the possibility of new business up on the Conn River line for PAS. Back in it's heyday, when the the B&M ran a lot of tonnage over this route, it was mainly overhead business from the CN & CP which is never coming back. There was also some traffic from Berlin & Groveton, and that's history too. What little on line business is left is mostly handled by NECR. With the slurry now being interchanged at Hoosick Jct and the NECR interchange moving to Millers Falls, I just can't see how PAS is ever going to significantly grow the business on this line. There may be some opportunities on the south end of the line down in CT, but I don't think NS/PAS really has much interest in the line north of the MA border. I guess time will tell...

roberttosh wrote:Not sure what all the excitement is about regarding the possibility of new business up on the Conn River line for PAS. Back in it's heyday, when the the B&M ran a lot of tonnage over this route, it was mainly overhead business from the CN & CP which is never coming back. There was also some traffic from Berlin & Groveton, and that's history too. What little on line business is left is mostly handled by NECR. With the slurry now being interchanged at Hoosick Jct and the NECR interchange moving to Millers Falls, I just can't see how PAS is ever going to significantly grow the business on this line. There may be some opportunities on the south end of the line down in CT, but I don't think NS/PAS really has much interest in the line north of the MA border. I guess time will tell...

They are talking about South of Greenfield, where there is a plethora of possible consignees next to the ROW in MA and also on the CT trackage.

Ok, that makes a lot more sense, as there is definitely more business south of Greenfield, starting with All-States Asphalt on the loop.

roberttosh wrote:Ok, that makes a lot more sense, as there is definitely more business south of Greenfield, starting with All-States Asphalt on the loop.

All states is currently receiving tar by rail, they even have their own leased tankers.

Safetee wrote:Don't confuse the "intermodal" station in Greenfield with the knowledge corridor HSR stimulus funding. Two separate issues with just a little concentricity by the rail line.

The "intermodal" station is a federal program that financially via grants encourages multi use facilities being constructed for cab to bus to car etc etc with the caveat that it be constructed (whether or not rail passenger service currently exists) adjacent to an active rail line. The "intermodal" station in Greenfield was thought up long before the knowledge corridor reputedly for some or all of the following:
1) To get a big grant
2) To have a permanent home for the FRTA offices
3) To have another home for the FRCOG offices
4) To get all the "people" who sit in front of Greenfield city hall waiting for the bus to have another place to congregate.

Unfortunately these intermodal station grants have very little to do with improving transportation per se. It's a kind of economic development tool that is frequently mis used in the name of transportation.

One need only see what happened with the fabulous cape styling Hyannis intermodal center. This facility has no passenger train service, gets very little passenger use for any mode, but does have a variety of homeless, addiction, and violence issues associated with it.

The knowledge corridor project supposedly includes a rail station adjacent to the intermodal center for Greenfield to the tune of 2 million or so.

The big question really is that given the current political climate in Washington, which i would say is not exactly pro high speed rail, will the delays, (ostensibly NS PAS love fest issues) on the Mass portion of the Knowledge Corridor result in those funds that are unspent being pulled/sacrificed as a part of the Obama congress economic crisis compromise.

There is a very real chance that when all the dust settles, Rail America will look like a genius for getting, paying for, and laying their HSR cwr on the ground in Vermont literally minutes before the Tea Party got started in DC in January. It may very well be if things play out the way they look, that the Vermonter will stay on the NECR to Palmer for a long long time. And in the mean time, NECR trains in Vermont at least will be a little faster and a little more secure on their HSR newly built right of way. Very smart monkeys up in them thar hills in Vermont. Very smart.

So $12 million spent so we don't have to deal with a few people hanging out in front of town hall waiting for a bus. If they really want to do something useful why not deal with all of the people hanging out in Vetrans Mall. I still stand by my original comment the $12 million will only go to serving about 50 people "intermodally" It will be even less if there is no train connection. A bus to cab connection hardly qualifies as intermodal if you ask me and $12 million dollars for offices for a marginally useful organization like the COG is a pretty high price tag to me, although it will be nice not having to go to the court house to see the cog building inspectors .

As far as congress pulling back any unspent but committed funds I really doubt that's going to happen especially in a pro union state like Massachusetts. The construction unions have a very stong lobby. If you try to pull the plug on a unstarted but planned for project you end up with a lot of pi$$ed off voters. The rebuilding of the line to parallel I91 just makes a ton of sense compared to it's current routing. Now if the money was just committed to Massachusetts but not for any specific project I could see worrying about it.

roberttosh wrote:Not sure what all the excitement is about regarding the possibility of new business up on the Conn River line for PAS. Back in it's heyday, when the the B&M ran a lot of tonnage over this route, it was mainly overhead business from the CN & CP which is never coming back. There was also some traffic from Berlin & Groveton, and that's history too. What little on line business is left is mostly handled by NECR. With the slurry now being interchanged at Hoosick Jct and the NECR interchange moving to Millers Falls, I just can't see how PAS is ever going to significantly grow the business on this line. There may be some opportunities on the south end of the line down in CT, but I don't think NS/PAS really has much interest in the line north of the MA border. I guess time will tell...

There are a few options that have potential in Greenfield and points north. Lane has a massive quarry operation in Northfield right on the line, they need asphalt, cement inbound and could ship out aggrigate and sand. Kringle candle has the potential to receive wax via rail if the grow large enough. Two fuel vendors have tanks right on the rail line. Sandri in greenfield and Country oil in Bernardston. Cersossimo in Barttleboro has two unused sidings although these would be NECR customers most likely