Amtrak Proposes Adding New Service to Scranton

Albany? But the rationale for service to Scranton, unless I misunderstand, is to accommodate commuters to NYC who are jamming up the highways.

As a former resident of the Binghamton area who remembers being taken to the World's Fair in 1965 via Erie-Lackawanna's Phoebe Snow, I think service to Binghamton is a wonderful idea, but Scranton - Binghamton - Albany - NYC is insane. The trip would take all day. Scranton - Binghamton - Port Jervis - NYC is only slightly less insane.

E-L used to run train #21/22 via Port Jervis in parallel with #1/2 (the Phoebe Snow) via Scranton. According to a 1962 timetable, #21 left Hoboken at 9:00 AM and arrived at Binghamton at 2:22 PM. #1 didn't leave Hoboken until 10:20 but got to Binghamton at 2:45, almost an hour faster (4:25 via Scranton versus 5:22 via Port Jervis).

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:06 amAs a former resident of the Binghamton area who remembers being taken to the World's Fair in 1965 via Erie-Lackawanna's Phoebe Snow, I think service to Binghamton is a wonderful idea, but Scranton - Binghamton - Albany - NYC is insane. The trip would take all day. Scranton - Binghamton - Port Jervis - NYC is only slightly less insane.

There are only two ways to run a viable Scranton-NYC service-- via Stroudsburg and the Lackawanna Cutoff, or via Allentown and the LV/CNJ. And any service running via the Cutoff would have to terminate in Hoboken, at least until such time as another 2 North River tubes are operative.

The ex-Erie via Port Jervis is just not viable for this purpose. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to get in their car and go drive up NY-97 or NY-17. The straight-line distance from PJ to Binghamton is ~80 miles but the rail mileage is probably closer to 130 and I doubt there's a single full mile of tangent track in that stretch.

There's a reason Scranton is way more isolated from NYC than other places ~90 miles away, like Hartford or Philadelphia or the Hamptons: 60 of those 90 miles are mountains.

Ridgefielder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:10 pm
The ex-Erie via Port Jervis is just not viable for this purpose. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to get in their car and go drive up NY-97 or NY-17. The straight-line distance from PJ to Binghamton is ~80 miles but the rail mileage is probably closer to 130 and I doubt there's a single full mile of tangent track in that stretch.

There's a reason Scranton is way more isolated from NYC than other places ~90 miles away, like Hartford or Philadelphia or the Hamptons: 60 of those 90 miles are mountains.

Nice for sightseeing, however!

NJ Transit is actively working toward re-opening the Lackawanna Cutoff. Why isn't Amtrak working with NJT on that project? It is the fastest route.

Ridgefielder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:10 pm

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:06 amAs a former resident of the Binghamton area who remembers being taken to the World's Fair in 1965 via Erie-Lackawanna's Phoebe Snow, I think service to Binghamton is a wonderful idea, but Scranton - Binghamton - Albany - NYC is insane. The trip would take all day. Scranton - Binghamton - Port Jervis - NYC is only slightly less insane.

There are only two ways to run a viable Scranton-NYC service-- via Stroudsburg and the Lackawanna Cutoff, or via Allentown and the LV/CNJ. And any service running via the Cutoff would have to terminate in Hoboken, at least until such time as another 2 North River tubes are operative.

Via Allentown is an interesting idea, especially if you like the Reading and Northern who would be a good partner. However back in LV/CNJ days it took close to 5 hours vs. 2.5 on I-80, assuming no traffic delays. However, the Phoebe Snow did it In about 3’15” via the cutoff. This would be competitive especially with the hassle of traffic that can be overwhelming around the metro area or around the Delaware water gap.

There's a reason Scranton is way more isolated from NYC than other places ~90 miles away, like Hartford or Philadelphia or the Hamptons: 60 of those 90 miles are mountains.

"Your host in the Poconos with the most in the Poconos". I can't remember the name of the resort, but the slogan still rings in my ears 50+ years later.

NJT will stop at Andover Station,that is the end of NJT's work,they WILL NOT GO BEYOND THAT STATION, so forget about the cutoff!!!!!
AGAIN, Spend that $$$$$ for a second Philly-Pittsburg train!!!

palmland wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:53 pm Via Allentown is an interesting idea, especially if you like the Reading and Northern who would be a good partner. However back in LV/CNJ days it took close to 5 hours vs. 2.5 on I-80, assuming no traffic delays. However, the Phoebe Snow did it In about 3’15” via the cutoff. This would be competitive especially with the hassle of traffic that can be overwhelming around the metro area or around the Delaware water gap.

I looked this up, actually. The rail route times are more competitive than that.

In 1940, the Lehigh Valley's Black Diamond was carded at 4:24 running time from Penn Station to Wilkes-Barre via Allentown. In 1954, the Lackawanna schedule indicated 3:50 from 34th St. in Midtown to Scranton via the Hudson Tubes to Hoboken and the Phoebe Snow. Remember for a head-to-head comparison you'd have to include the last miles into NYC. Otherwise its like quoting drive times from the Jersey side of the Lincoln Tunnel. Also worth considering that the 1940 LV train was steam-hauled with an engine change while the 1954 DL&W was a diesel.

It has been 51 years since Scranton had regular schedued rail passenger service. Though that is not great, some of you make like residents of Scranton were left with team horses and canal boats. My late father in law came from Scranton, in fact, he worked at the Scranton DL&W station when he was a teenager loading mail before being drafted in WWII. Only one of six brothers stayed, all others moved out of there.

Unless Pennsylvania kicks into the kitty, I think Andover will be as far west as service will be restored someday.

How much park n'ride business on current NJT west end points are used by Commonwealth residents?

Before you fire off, my point of origin at the opposite end of the Commonwealth lost service the same time 51 years ago when The Lake Cities quit, that was last public transportation for that town [bus quit three years before]. I sold the weekly Grit at station for #5 & #6, a regular was a diner 'chef', the route wasn't fun anymore. I rode once in 1966, I remember my aunt and her father took #6 one time to go to her dying sister's home in New Jersey in fall of 1969.

@ URR304 - Wow, I remember seeing advertisements in the back of Boy's Life in the '70's looking for kids to sell "Grit". I never saw any other mention of the paper beyond that and always wondered if it was a "For Real" publication. Thanks for sparking that old memory of mine!

It pains me to see a beautiful piece of engineering, essentially one of the world's first LGV's, going to waste including the two impressive viaducts that stand as a testament to the fall of a great empire (remember when the US, and not Europe or China, led the world in infrastructure?). But without something to get this thing to critical mass - a new silicon valley in the Poconos or anthracite coal becoming en vogue again, I don't know what's going to do it. Scranton and the surrounding area are sort of in this weird half rust belt, half tourist attraction locale with a reasonably healthy population but maybe not enough to push it over the top.

@charlesriverbranch,

"Your host in the Poconos with the most in the Poconos". I can't remember the name of the resort, but the slogan still rings in my ears 50+ years later.

Mount Airy Lodge, I believe it was in Mt. Pocono. Went there with the wife once in the mid-80s.
Sorry all, Off topic.

Someone mentioned going through Binghamton. I've thought that tying Binghamton into the national network would be interesting ever since meeting a couple on the LSL that were EB towards Albany to pick up their car and drive back home to Binghamton. (I can't recall why they didn't park it in Syracuse.)

This might be the only workable way to do this,Albany-Bingo- Buffalo-Niagara Falls station/crew base . Since Amtrak T&E cres are Qualified for Albany-Bingo- Elmira-Hornell to reach the CAF Factory and Alstrom Factory for Acela II
NS might need to do some track work from Elmira -Buffalo segment, as a possible Empire Service add on,
Gov Cuomo might go for that possibility.
Sorry guys/gals,Thruway Bus to Scranton.

Buses to Scranton are next to useless.