Amtrak Proposes Adding New Service to Scranton

Can we stop talking about the non existent involvement in PennDot and SEPTA inside NJ? Never was, never will be. We are interested in NJDOT getting Fed funding to rebuild the Cutoff through and beyond Andover, and then the proper agencies in PA doing what they should be doing. Instead of arguing against it, come up with and support solutions, push hard under a Biden administration.

NJT rebuild STOPS at Andover PERIOD!
This is a nonstarter routing Bus from Bingo best bet with Albany-Bingo -Buffalo train service!

What does your Bingo obsession have to do with the train service to Scranton that so many people desire? Except possibly train service connecting or continuing at Scranton from NJ and NYP onward to the Southern Tier, which would be great for the many students from the NYC Metro area going to school in Alfred, Buffalo, SOuthern Tier, Rochester?

You NEED to STOP obsessing on the cutoff routing,that option is GONE past Andover Station.
Scranton has wound up as a RR backwater after CR and the CR split between CSX and NS The EL and LV mainlines are chopped up and GONE!
Spend te $$$$$ for ONE of two options that make sense,The second train between Philly and Pittsburgh, or,Albany-Bingo-Elmira-Hornell, Niagara Falls(Buffalo) that could get NYSDOT support.
A Thruway Bus on I-81 is a better option from Bingo than the pounded to death I-80 from NYC
Setting up a "Downeaster" type setup from Hoboken will raise the wrong kind of interest from the critters in DC, along the lines of Amtrak getting forced out of GCT
Running out of NYP forces a long reverse move from the NEC connection at MMC back to the Mainline/Bergen County line to get routed toward Port Jervis
NOT cost effective,brings the unwanted critter interest as well. A connection at Secaucus Transfer would not possible due to land development around that station

photobug56 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:30 pm Can we stop talking about the non existent involvement in PennDot and SEPTA inside NJ? Never was, never will be. We are interested in NJDOT getting Fed funding to rebuild the Cutoff through and beyond Andover, and then the proper agencies in PA doing what they should be doing. Instead of arguing against it, come up with and support solutions, push hard under a Biden administration.

NJT isn’t going to spend precious money rebuilding a track to nowhere. There is no ridership to justify that. The only reason to rebuild the cutoff is potential PA service, except that PA doesn’t have the money for that either.

Chicken, meet egg.

I80

You'll have to take I-84 and I-380 before you get to I-80.

Yes, the main purpose of restoring the cutoff is to get it across the Delaware to PA. It will be a stepping stone when service to Andover starts but that's obviously a fraction of the distance on the cutoff to Scranton. The Steamtown excursion trains take two hours to travel from Scranton to East Stroudsburg and for a tourist train, that's fine. However, when we are talking about getting commuters, business travelers, and tourists from Point A to Point B, especially those who live at least 70 miles from their job, that's a different story. I guess that the Lackawanna wasn't really meant to handle high speed trains and their extreme curvature on their right of ways is no match for those train riders who don't want to depend on the car.

Before any big new route expansions occur, capacity must be improved at the inner core. For example, getting the key parts of Gateway built. The new Hudson River tunnel is needed and has been for a while. The older tubes need to be rehabilitated. Portal needs to be built as well as four tracks on the NEC High Line. On the Morris & Essex Line, capacity issues are happening. The right of way needs to be at least three tracks through Harrison and then across Newark Draw. NJT is planning on replacing the existing Newark Drawbridge with one that can handle three tracks. In Millburn, there is a plan to extend the third track west of Millburn Interlocking to serve the station and then it would merge with the existing two tracks. There isn't much you can do in terms of adding a third track the rest of the way to Summit as much of the right of way is hilly on both sides of the tracks. Once on the Morris & Essex Line, all of the improvements are up to NJT, regardless of if that agency or Amtrak run the service.

Mr. Buff, my sincere compliments to you for setting forth that there are far so many NY area infrastructure improvements needed than even thinking about restoring the DLW to handle a passenger train between NY and our incoming POTUS' one time hometown.

Andover NJ may get its rail service within the next ten years, but the NJT planners has deemed "that's far enough" into Sussex County to meet any anticipated needs.

I believe that service to Andover will begin in the next five to six years. I have a hunch that some of the trains that currently terminate at Lk Hopatcong will run to Andover. It looks like the station in Andover will be just east of Rt. 206. It sounds like the station will be in the middle of nowhere basically. That station will be closer to Newton than Lk Hopatcong. It's possible that many people who live in Sussex County will use Andover, particularly those who live in Newton as well many of the surrounding towns in sections that border Newton.

Currently, NJT runs so many trains on the Morris & Essex Line. Even the stretch of the M&E, west of Summit where the Gladstone Branch diverges, is pretty busy with trains during the weekday, especially at rush hour.

Okay, I need a rail reference here... let me... wait a minute... there's rail already in Scranton, per OpenStreetMap...

It's already mapped out?!?

The old Pennsylvania Northeast Regional Railroad Authority, the old DL&W. Buffalo, Scranton, NYC.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/ ... /-75.67002

If you rebuild the line between Washington, NJ up US 46, reconnect to the bridge on the other side of US 46 near NJ State Road 163 and Hemlock Hill Lane, you get Stroudsburg, Mount Pocono, Scranton, Binghamton, and Buffalo. No need for the Lakawana cut-off. Maybe needs some more rail laid to support Amtrak service, some curves cut/straightened out, etc.

And yes, I think this would be Amtrak service. Corridor service.

Mr. Wolf, that is what the DL&W "hands" called the "Old Main Line", and apparently still has NJT service as far West as Hackettstown. Surprised to learn that it's still intact.

God help anyone on I-80 passing under the bridge to X-ing the River to Slateford when any train passes over it.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:37 pm Mr. Wolf, that is what the DL&W "hands" called the "Old Main Line", and apparently still has NJT service as far West as Hackettstown. Surprised to learn that it's still intact.

God help anyone on I-80 passing under the bridge to X-ing the River to Slateford when any train passes over it.

Yeah, I was surprised that it was documented. Granted, some track has been raised in New Jersey, so it'll need to be put back down or rerouted. I'd expect some reconstruction and a bridge replacement, from what I saw off Google's satellite view.

At this point, the service to Scranton would be one of Amtrak's state supported corridor routes. It's way too long of a distance from NYC-Scranton to be riding in NJT equipment.

Contributors from NJ can be more specific, but IIRC the Old Main was abandoned from Washington to Portland since mid 1960s, so it is longer gone than the Cutoff. Running times were considerable longer too. But the Cutoff was not built for passenger service it was for easing the transport of all that anthracite to New York metropolitan area, the improvement to passenger trains running time was just a byproduct.