Amtrak Proposes Adding New Service to Scranton

JoeG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:24 pm As far as I can tell, you could run trains from NYP to Newark, then switch to the Raritan Valley Line. This line is interrupted near the PA border but it looks like you could switch to the NS-operated Lehigh Line to Allentown somewhere before the Raritan Valley line ends. NS operates trackage from Allentown to Scranton and Wilkes-Barre. Whether NS would be willing to accommodate passenger trains on this trackage, and what the track speeds are, I have no idea.

A year or two ago as I recall, NS issued a public statement that it would not allow passenger service on the line.

Ken W2KB wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:58 pmA year or two ago as I recall, NS issued a public statement that it would not allow passenger service on the line.

NS is a publicly-traded company. If some combination of the Feds, NJ and PA came to NS with an offer of $$$ to, say, reinstall double or triple track in return for allowing passenger service they'd have to consider it. Both the LV and the CNJ had at least 2 tracks over the entire route between Newark and Allentown/Bethlehem-- CNJ was 4 tracks in places.

As Rod Tidwell would say: "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"

Without stopping NYP-Dover. It's 1 Hr. 5 MIN via Boonton Line and 1 Hour 2 Min. via the M+E so it's really not the end of the world to run via the Boonton.

From there it's about 85 track miles to Scranton if you can keep it to 55mph running time West of Dover 2 hr. 30 min ride is feasible.

Considering a no traffic run time is 2 Hour 5 min via car (3 hours plus with traffic) that 2:30-2:40 run time would be very appealing...

If the train is fairly comfortable, it's a lot better than rush hour driving. PLUS - if they are smart they will have room in a couple cars for luggage and skis and make it clear which those are.

CentralValleyRail wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:30 am Without stopping NYP-Dover. It's 1 Hr. 5 MIN via Boonton Line and 1 Hour 2 Min. via the M+E so it's really not the end of the world to run via the Boonton.

this is some funny math. where are the slots, both in the tunnel and on the mains through NJ, to actually run a non-stop train on that schedule?

From there it's about 85 track miles to Scranton if you can keep it to 55mph running time West of Dover 2 hr. 30 min ride is feasible.

your math is assuming not stopping at Dover too I guess, or anywhere else between Dover and Scranton?

Considering a no traffic run time is 2 Hour 5 min via car (3 hours plus with traffic) that 2:30-2:40 run time would be very appealing...

For the total of 100 people that will use this train on any given week…sure.

lensovet wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:57 am

CentralValleyRail wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:30 am Without stopping NYP-Dover. It's 1 Hr. 5 MIN via Boonton Line and 1 Hour 2 Min. via the M+E so it's really not the end of the world to run via the Boonton.

this is some funny math. where are the slots, both in the tunnel and on the mains through NJ, to actually run a non-stop train on that schedule?

From there it's about 85 track miles to Scranton if you can keep it to 55mph running time West of Dover 2 hr. 30 min ride is feasible.

your math is assuming not stopping at Dover too I guess, or anywhere else between Dover and Scranton?

Considering a no traffic run time is 2 Hour 5 min via car (3 hours plus with traffic) that 2:30-2:40 run time would be very appealing...

For the total of 100 people that will use this train on any given week…sure.

Martz Trailways has 5 buses each weekday between Scranton and New York. I would say that that equates to more than 100 passenger a week. There must be a market or sure as shootin' they wouldn't be runnin' them.

buses have virtually no capital costs and rather low operational costs, so i'm not sure how that's relevant here.

i see only 4 runs/day on their website. those buses also do the trip in under 2.5 hours (at least according to the schedule) which we've already established wouldn't be achievable by train.

Ridgefielder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:57 am NS is a publicly-traded company. If some combination of the Feds, NJ and PA came to NS with an offer of $$$ to, say, reinstall double or triple track in return for allowing passenger service they'd have to consider it. Both the LV and the CNJ had at least 2 tracks over the entire route between Newark and Allentown/Bethlehem-- CNJ was 4 tracks in places.

This is the very scenario pundits always come up with and to date zero railroads have ever accepted. Ever taken the time to considered why? After all, new additional track is free?
Well, first of all, it is not free, there are multiple reasons why the additional tracks were removed in the first place. The additional track, no matter how new, creates construction disturbances, requires maintenance, requires frequent testing, needs signal upgrades, and has additional taxes. All of which costs the railroad company more money in the long run than what the extra track costs.
At this point misinformed pundits will argue that the governments will pick up the tab for all these additional railroad costs. Has it ever? Only when the governments bought the railroad line in question. Otherwise, the railroads have been left to fend for themselves.

I have said this many times and I will say it again-north of E. Stroudsburg, a brand new set of tracks would have to be built in many spots. Having all of those 180 degree curves will slow down the travel time by train to Scranton considerably. I do want to see regularly scheduled passenger service to Scranton. It would give people living in the Scranton area access to tons of business, recreational, and social opportunities in the greater NYC area. The route must be built right or it doesn't get built at all.

This is a non-starter route,unless you set up a "Downeaster" type setup at Hoboken,the cutoff is not going to, or past the PA border in the near future , train out of NY Penn forces a long reverse move to the Mainline/Bergen
County line to go to Bingo(NJT,MN,and NS)then head south to Scranton, not cost effective NS doesn't want passenger service beyond Port Jervis on the southern tier route.
Put the $$$$$ into a second Philly-Pittsburg train instead!!!!!

NS doesn't want passenger service beyond Port Jervis on the southern tier route.

Is NS even using the ex-Erie between Port Jervis and Binghamton? I thought they had leased it out to a short line.

The only route to Scranton that makes any sense is the ex-DL&W from Hoboken, and that means rebuilding the Lackawanna cutoff.

I think a Harrisburg or Allentown to Albany train would be the best train to serve Scranton. Connections to other Amtrak trains in Albany and Harrisburg, plus great scenery.

New York. Scranton. That's what we want and need.0

electricron wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:54 pm

Ridgefielder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:57 am NS is a publicly-traded company. If some combination of the Feds, NJ and PA came to NS with an offer of $$$ to, say, reinstall double or triple track in return for allowing passenger service they'd have to consider it. Both the LV and the CNJ had at least 2 tracks over the entire route between Newark and Allentown/Bethlehem-- CNJ was 4 tracks in places.

This is the very scenario pundits always come up with and to date zero railroads have ever accepted. Ever taken the time to considered why? After all, new additional track is free?
Well, first of all, it is not free, there are multiple reasons why the additional tracks were removed in the first place. The additional track, no matter how new, creates construction disturbances, requires maintenance, requires frequent testing, needs signal upgrades, and has additional taxes. All of which costs the railroad company more money in the long run than what the extra track costs.
At this point misinformed pundits will argue that the governments will pick up the tab for all these additional railroad costs. Has it ever? Only when the governments bought the railroad line in question. Otherwise, the railroads have been left to fend for themselves.

The Downeaster would seem to disprove that assertion. As, for that matter, would the Ethan Allen and the Vermonter.