1886 Historical Information Needed

Hello,

I am writing a historical fiction novel, and the main character is living in Boston in 1886. He will be making regular train trips from Boston to New York over a several months time period, and, based on my research, it appears he would be taking the New York, New Haven and Hartford railroad line.

I would like to add details in the story about the train line, and what the character might be doing and seeing while on the train. Did they have sleeper cars at that time? How long would the trip take him? How many transfer might he have to make? What type of people might have been on the train with him? Any ideas where it would let him off in NYC? I have an address of where he would be going to once inside the city, so I would need to detail how he got from the train station to his destination.

Thank you!

Jackie Phillips

If 1893 is close enough, I can supply some information from the Official Guide for that year.

There was more than one route to NYC possible, however, to avoid getting lost in the weeds, I would reasonably assume that your character traveled by the New Haven's Shore Line route, by which the fastest trip to NYC took 5 hrs 40 min with two or three stops, the slowest took over 7 hrs.

There were sleeping cars in use during that time.

I'm sure somebody reading this has access to public timetables from 1886 and can supply info on the type of accommodations available - coach, sleeper, dining cars - and any on-board upscale amenities. Boston departures are marked "O.C. RR" which implies that they left from the Old Colony depot at South and Kneeland street. You should also realize that in those years travelers were also quite likely to travel Boston - New York by the Boat Train from Boston to Fall River and then by steamer to New York.

PBM

In 1886 the Shore Line was not yet complete - the bridge at New London over the Thames was not built until 1889. Ferries between Groton and New London did operate; however, it's likely your character would have taken a ferry from Fall River, Stonington, or Norwich.

Thank you for your responses. Let me see if I can ask some more questions.

"If 1893 is close enough, I can supply some information from the Official Guide for that year."

If you think the times are relatively close to the same as in 1886, that would be fine. Thanks!

"There was more than one route to NYC possible, however, to avoid getting lost in the weeds, I would reasonably assume that your character traveled by the New Haven's Shore Line route"

This character would be interested in the fastest route back and forth because he still has things to do in Boston that can't be done while he is in New York City, and because he will be making this trip a lot over several months or more. However, there might be a need for a back up plan if the original plan does not always work. Such as if there are known delays on the main route, what routes might be available?

"You should also realize that in those years travelers were also quite likely to travel Boston - New York by the Boat Train from Boston to Fall River and then by steamer to New York."

One person mentioned the steamer ships. It might be fun to get to known about the steamer routes and have the character take that occasionally for a change if there are delays on the train route. Where would I find out about that route?

" by which the fastest trip to NYC took 5 hrs 40 min with two or three stops, the slowest took over 7 hrs."

Interesting on the time. I mapped the same route by Google Maps last night, and I came up with a driving route of just over seven hours. Would the train be faster than a car, even at that time? Maybe the car route has a lot more stops and turns that a train would not have to take. And, would there only be two or three stops? According to a map put out by the NHRHTA website (www.nhrhta.org), there were over 10 cities/stops along the way. The train would not stop at all the stations along the way? That is where I calculated more time, at least 10-15 minutes at each station. But, did they have a "commuter" route that only stops at key stops and other trains that stopped at all the station? Maybe the cargo trains stopped at all the stations? Also, would this be a direct route from Boston to NY or would there be a transfer point?

"There were sleeping cars in use during that time."

Great! Did they have routes running at night? Could he leave Boston late at night and arrive in NYC by the morning?

"I'm sure somebody reading this has access to public timetables from 1886 and can supply info on the type of accommodations available - coach, sleeper, dining cars - and any on-board upscale amenities. Boston departures are marked "O.C. RR" which implies that they left from the Old Colony depot at South and Kneeland street."

That would be great. I saw that there was a large selection of railroad records at the Thomas J. Dodd Research Center, but I could not find any online access to these records.

What are the Boston stations he might leave from? I would need to determine exactly where he is living in Boston and determine which station he might board the train at.

Also, what station would he get off at in New York, if he needs to go to West 38th Street?

I live near San Francisco, and have no familiarity with the New England area, and I don't know anybody living there. You guys are my connection to the area! Thanks!

You may want to check Google books to see if you can find any period articles or even the NY Times archives for details.

Many people in that era opted for overnight steamships for direct travel between Boston and New York. One of the lines during this time was the Metropolitan Steamship Co. Coastal steamers during the referenced period looked similar to the one shown, the ill fated Portland. Travel on a steamer could add some interest to your novel.

One all rail route he could take would be Boston-Springfield, Mass. on the Boston & Albany Railroad, then Springfield to NY on the New Haven. He could transfer at Springfield, however I believe that at this time there was direct sleeping car service over this route at night. He would arrive in Grand Central Station in NYC, at 42nd street (NOT the modern Grand Central Terminal, same location, completely different structures). I believe the tracks at Grand Central were covered by a glass arched roof. Due to the use of steam locomotives in Grand Central, it should probably be described as mildly sooty/dirty in the platform areas and the areas to the north of the station. Of regional note, the New Haven was commonly reffered to as "The Consolidated" during this period.
C.J.V.

The NYNH & H did not make its Boston entry until 1894 when it acquired the Old Colony and with it the Boston & Providence. The Boston-Springfield-New York route was a logical one for a night train trip, but even then it probably only took about 7 hours. You should also find out who supplied the sleeping cars. The Boston & Albany was not a New York Central property yet, but it was on very good terms with the New York Central which up until about this time used Wagner sleeping cars, not Pullmans. Probably the preferred route in the late 1880s was the boat train route using the Old Colony, Boston-Braintree over the Dighton & Somerset route through Dean St., Taunton, and on to the Fall River Wharf. The 6 pm departure from Boston was timed to be at the end of the business day and with about an 80 minute running time for the 56 miles to Fall River, the train moved right along. (A departure for the all rail via Springfield route wouldn't be until about 10 pm or so, so the character would have to hang around Boston for some time after the city pretty much shut down.) The boat train did not have a diner although it did have parlors and the latest coach stock. Passengers dined on board the Fall River Line steamer and ate a hearty New England supper before bedtime which must have kept lots of travelers awake especially when the boat rolled on the open waters off Point Judith. Steamers in use in late 1880s were PILGRIM, new in 1881 and PROVIDENCE and BRISTOL, from 1868 and probably showing their age. (BRISTOL burned to the waterline on 12/30/1888 in Newport.) (PURITAN entered service in 1889.) The Fall River train-boat route also landed travelers much closer the the business heart of New York, Pier 19, NR, quite some distance south of Grand Central at 42nd St. whch is where the train would have landed them.

OK. Let me see if I can piece this all together based on all the wonderful comments.

I definitely like the idea of the steamship trip into New York City as the first choice in travel for this character. That fits his needs. I was able to find several books from a library by Roger Williams McAdams about these steamships. They are on order.

Then:
"The 6 pm departure from Boston was timed to be at the end of the business day and with about an 80 minute running time for the 56 miles to Fall River, the train moved right along."

Would he catch the train to Fall River at the now defunct Kneeland Depot? I got these notes off of Wikipedia:

"That terminal had been located on the west side of Utica Street, from Kneeland Street south to a bit past Harvard Street, now part of the South Bay Interchange. Even earlier, the terminal was in the block bounded by Kneeland Street, Beach Street, Albany Street (now Surface Artery) and Lincoln Street (which later became a freight house)."

Is this the same station? Was it torn down when the new South Station was built?

Or was there a different station where the train to Fall River would be caught?

Then:
"The Fall River train-boat route also landed travelers much closer the the business heart of New York, Pier 19, NR, quite some distance south of Grand Central at 42nd St. whch is where the train would have landed them."

I am having a hard time finding out where this Pier 19 is. I have tried different maps, and I get a variety of spots. Can anybody give me any street names that it might be near? Does it still exist?

Back up plan:

"The Boston-Springfield-New York route was a logical one for a night train trip, but even then it probably only took about 7 hours. "

What station would this depart from? One place mentioned a Park Street Station, but there doesn't seem to be a station there now, or it is not marked on a current Google Map.

"(A departure for the all rail via Springfield route wouldn't be until about 10 pm or so, so the character would have to hang around Boston for some time after the city pretty much shut down.)"

That 10 pm time would be OK since he does live there and can do other things until it leaves, thus giving him more time at home.

So, he could transfer in Springfield for a ride directly into New York City? Is that correct? Any idea when that gets into NYC? And would that go to Grand Central?

Did I get I those correct?

Thanks!

Jackie Phillips

Sorry. I just checked my 1890 Official Guide. The Fall River Line at that time was using Pier 28, North River, foot of Murray Street. A Boston-Springfield-New York train would run through all the way. No change trains. Arrival would have been about 7 am, time to grab breakfast before the start of the business day. Grand Central of 1886 was the terminal built in the early 1870s, upgraded several times, and razed for the current station which opened about 1913. Grand Central was the only all rail terminus in New York City in 1886. All other terminals were reached by ferries from the railheads in New Jersey or on Long Island. The Old Colony Boston terminal was side-by-side with the Boston & Albany's terminal on Kneeland Street. The boat train might have used the Boston & Providence Park Square terminal after the NYNH & H assumed control, but that was in the mid-1890s or later. The B & P Park Square Terminal was about where the Park Plaza Hotel is. Look for Providence Street. If your characters have to get to the NY City financial district, they probably would have used elevated trains. There were 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 9th Ave. operations. 9th swung over to 8th somewhere. The elevateds were operated more like conventional railroad trains. Steam locomotives pulled trains of unpowered coaches.

Here is a photo of the pier house at Murrray Street around 1938. Whether this is the same building from 1886, it’s hard to tell. Though the façade shows Pier 18, pier designations changed over time with the reconfiguration of the waterfront and the decommissioning of old piers and the addition of new ones. The Eastern Steamship Co was a company formed later that served the Boston-New York route.

During the nineteenth century steamship travel was most likely popular in the summer, since passenger train cars were not particularly well vented and rudimentary forms of AC did not come till much later. With the tempestuous waters of the cold months, one would assume that the train was the more favorable mode.

If your main character was of reasonable standing, he would have not taken public transport after disembarking a ship or arriving at GCT. He would have most likely taken a horse drawn paid carriage or Hansom cab.

See link to map showing pier – use the zoom tool.

http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigi ... &pos=1&e=w


Link to Steamship Historical Society of America

http://www.sshsa.org/


Chuck

OK. Here are a few brief questions.

“I just checked my 1890 Official Guide.”

Is this guide available to the public somewhere and what kind of guide is it? Is it a steamship guide or a rail guide?

I found this book, “The development of steam navigation on Long Island Sound.” It is published by the Steamship Historical Society. I can’t get it in a local library or through a wider “Link Plus” search. It is for sale by the Society and on Amazon for $16.00. Is this book worth $16.00? Can it give me some valuable information?

“The Fall River Line at that time was using Pier 28, North River, foot of Murray Street.”

Is this in New York City? I wasn't sure if that is a pier in Fall River.

“A Boston-Springfield-New York train would run through all the way.”

Would that have been under the Boston and Albany Railroad, or another line, if it went non-stop?

Am I correct to assume that the overnight order from Boston to New York, whether it be on train or steamship, could be reversed from the ride back from New York to Boston? Were these available to leave at night from New York and arrive in the morning back to Boston?

“During the nineteenth century steamship travel was most likely popular in the summer, since passenger train cars were not particularly well vented and rudimentary forms of AC did not come till much later. With the tempestuous waters of the cold months, one would assume that the train was the more favorable mode.”

There was one note that said if the bay was frozen over, the ships could not reach Fall River. Is that true? Would they dock at another place?

“If your main character was of reasonable standing, he would have not taken public transport after disembarking a ship or arriving at GCT. He would have most likely taken a horse drawn paid carriage or Hansom cab.”

No. Working, economy class.

I found this map of the Fall River Rail Line. Is this pretty accurate? Are there any available time schedules online to look at?

file:///Volumes/My%20Book/Books:Writings/Will%20Austin%20Adventure%20Series/Presa%20de%20Muerte/Chapter%20One%20Will%20Goes%20Back%20to%20Boston/Railroads/Fall%20River:Old%20Colony%20Map.webarchive

I think that is everything for now.

Thanks again!

Jackie Phillips

Is this guide available to the public somewhere and what kind of guide is it? Is it a steamship guide or a rail guide?

The Official Guide of the Railways was a North American passenger train timetable book published monthly in New York for about a century. It also included some steamship, and later airline, schedules. Both original copies and reprints are available from railroadiana dealers and you can also find copies on eBay.

Is this in New York City?

Yes, in lower Manhattan.

Would that have been under the Boston and Albany Railroad, or another line, if it went non-stop?

The Boston & Albany RR from Boston to Springfield, and the New York, New Haven & Hartford RR from Springfield to New York. Through trains were operated up to the mid-20th century, but they were not non-stop.

Were these available to leave at night from New York and arrive in the morning back to Boston?

Yes, overnight services operated in both directions, including overnight boats from New York to Fall River.

It may be an interesting point of reference to the reader that the area on the New York Pier map bounded by West St. between Liberty and Vesey Sts. was to become the World Trade Center complex and of course later Ground Zero. Hallowed ground.

For a reference on the famous Fall River Line boat train, the various other rail routes available between NYC and Boston, and a description of class society during the period, I suggest Lucius Beebe and Charles Clegg:The Trains We Rode, Volume 1, Berkeley, California: Howell-North Books, 1965. It is usually available in public libraries. See the chapter on the New Haven.

PBM

The 1890 Official Guide which I reference is my property. A Boston-Springfield-New York train ran through, no one had to change trains at Springfield. However, there were intermediate stops at several cities and towns and an engine and crew change at Springfield. The trip could be made in reverse. Train time and departure from New York would be about the same time as from Boston. However, the Fall River Line steamer sailed from New York about 5 pm. This got the traveler into Fall River at a very early hour. The boat was probably a lot more comfortable than the train in calm waters as it only made one intermediate landing, Newport....very very early. (Newport passengers who did not wish to arise about 3 am were advised to sail right to Fall River and catch the first morning train back to Newport.) In fair months, probably mid-May to September the boat would be a pleasure to ride. The sail through the Sound was probably a lot cooler and there was plenty of room for steamers sailing in both directions;they didn't have to be side-by-side. The open-windowed train (some sleepers had screened windows, not coaches though) would pass snorting, belching, clanking trains on adjacent tracks and run through highway underpasses, beside wayside buildings and through rock cuts. The locomotive would billow bituminous coal smoke. So too would the steamer, but the high stacks were designed for carrying the smoke above and away from the boat. Most rail lines were surfaced with gravel ballast (track bed) at this time which would probably be pretty dusty in dry weather. If you check the McAdam books, the Sound only iced over once or twice during the 90 year history of the Fall River Line; boats were run south of Long Island at those times. One particular point you should focus on is the large number of steamers, most of which wound up under the control of the NYNH & H RR, eventually. In your time frame there were white passenger steamers departing in the 5 pm - 7pm window for Bridgeport, New Haven, Hartford, Norwich (Allyn's Point), Stonington, Providence and Fall River, maybe even New Bedford. Stand on the Shore near Execution Rock (great name) off New Rochelle and watch a steady parade of white steamers and twinkling lights are daylight began to fade. Find Splendor Sailed the Sound, another book that covers Long Island Sound steamers.