1886 Historical Information Needed

The Official Guide I've used as a reference is November 1890. The Night Express left both Boston and New York at 11 pm. The New York bound train was scheduled for a flat 7 hours, 6 am arrival in New York. The Boston bound train was scheduled for a 6:15 am arrival. In this Guide, the New York Central System was still using Wagner Palace cars. The Boston & Albany pages only mention sleeping cars, but the Boston & Albany, though not controlled by the NY Central yet, was certainly quite friendly with it. Both Wagner and Pullman listings show they had regional offices in Boston.

OK. Thank you to everybody for their fabulous and invaluable information. I think I should be able to take it from here with all the information provided.

I did try to get the book "Splendor Sailed the Sound," but it was not available from the libraries in this area. Amazon was selling it for the cheapest at $27.00, which is too much for me.

However, I did order the book, "The Development of Steam Navigation on Long Island Sound" for $16.00 from Amazon. Hopefully that should help out. And I have several books from McAdams coming from the library, and the book, "The Trains We Rode," which sounds interesting.

If I need additional information, I will post the questions again.

Thanks again, everyone!

Jackie Phillips

thesocialpet wrote:“The Fall River Line at that time was using Pier 28, North River, foot of Murray Street.”

Is this in New York City? I wasn't sure if that is a pier in Fall River.

Until about the time of the First World War, the Hudson in New York City was commonly referred to as the "North River." The name dates all the way back to Dutch colonial days (the Delaware was the South River.) Even today, most people born and raised in the city will know what you're talking about if you say "North River."

thesocialpet wrote:“If your main character was of reasonable standing, he would have not taken public transport after disembarking a ship or arriving at GCT. He would have most likely taken a horse drawn paid carriage or Hansom cab.”

No. Working, economy class.

Be sure you check out the train/boat fares, then, to ensure they fit with what a working man would have been able to pay in 1886. That was a time when a laborer might make $1/day and consider it not a terrible wage. Traveling salesmen, railroad employees, sailors, vaudeville actors, and messengers and the like were the only working class people who did a lot of traveling.

"Be sure you check out the train/boat fares, then, to ensure they fit with what a working man would have been able to pay in 1886. That was a time when a laborer might make $1/day and consider it not a terrible wage. Traveling salesmen, railroad employees, sailors, vaudeville actors, and messengers and the like were the only working class people who did a lot of traveling."

Is there any idea what the fares might be for these steamships in 1886? Did the fares vary according to accommodations and where on the ship were were staying, like in a room?

PS. I can't figure out how to the do the "quote" choice for these postings. Can somebody tell me how to do that?

Thanks!

Jackie Phillips

You write it out. This is how I would do you: (I have to swap a = for a *, otherwise it will go ahead thinking that it's a quote, and as you can see, If you miss one point it will reject.)

before the quote: [quote*"thesocialpet"]
after the quote: [/quote]

thesocialpet wrote:I think that bar none, Paul Joyce is the handsomest man in America !

I'm in a library that has a February 1886 Official Guide. The Fall River Line schedule was as follows: the steamers BRISTOL and PROVIDENCE (Steamers Steer by Steam and are Lighted by Electricity) left New York (Pier 28 North River, foot of Murray St.) at 4.30 pm daily except Sunday, arriving in Fall River at 5.00am (!) the next morning; the connecting train of the Old Colony Railroad (dubbed Steamboat Express) left at 5.20 am, arriving in Boston (Old Colony Station, corner South and Kneeland Sts.) at 6.50 am. In the opposite direction, departure from Boston was 6.00 pm daily except Sundays, times at Fall River 7.20/7.30 pm, and steamer arrival in New York at 7.00 am. The train carried parlor cars between Boston and Fall River, but that would have been beyond the means of anyone watching the pennies.
The listing states "REDUCTION OF FARES. First-class Fare (Limited Tickets), $3.00 between NEW YORK and BOSTON." No indication of how much less the ordinary fare was. The listing mentions state-rooms, but they would be beyond the means of a working man, as Ridgefielder commented above. The line had a ticket office at No. 3 Old State House, corner Washington and State Sts. in Boston, as well as at the Old Colony Station, and in New York at 207, 261, 944, and 1323 Broadway; Broadway, cor. Twenty-third St.; 153 Bowery; at Astor House, Windsor House, and 5th Avenue Hotel, as well as at the pier and on board the steamers (in case you want to work any of that into the story).

Thanks for all the detailed information. That really gives me a lot more detailed information. I like the information about where the tickets are purchased.

Question: You mentioned the scheduled was for everyday except for Sundays. What happens on Sunday? I might need to know that just in case.

Question: Are the times you quoted the only times available for the day? Did they only run on these times? I would assume they would run more than once a day, or maybe other lines were running other times. I appears that there were other steamboat companies running at the same time, but the ones you are telling me about are the ones that match up with an overnight travel and ones that matched up with the Fall River connection to Boston. Is that correct? I do think the overnight travel would be the most convenient.

So, it seems that if, for some reason, he was not able to make the ships either leaving Boston or New York, would the train be another available option? Per the schedule quoted by edbear, the train only took seven hours, leaving at 11 PM and arriving at 6 AM, both directions. Was the train less desirable or less comfortable for most people that they would prefer the longer route? Had the steamship been running for so long that they were the first and accepted choice for most people and then trains came later? Per the books I am reading, the ships were considered elegant and quite posh. I don't assume the trains could compete with that. Were the ships more desirable in general to make the trip? Maybe the fares on the ships were enticing enough to make people choose them over the trains.

Question: For the Boston - Springfield - New York line, somebody said that the passenger would go right through and not have to make a transfer of trains, but that the engine would be switched. So, does that mean that the passengers remain where they are and the transfer is done outside on the tracks and the engine is changed there? I think I have seen that in old movies, if that is what is being referred to. If so, would the passenger feel a "bumping" as the engines are disconnected and reconnected? And, would the passenger sees a change of crew at that point?

Question: If this character were to maintain a regular routine with a regular schedule of traveling, would he be able to ride several of the steamships like the PILGRIM, the PROVIDENCE or the BRISTOL over a stint of several months or would only one of the ships be running on each schedule?

Question: The books I am reading by McAdam say that there were also freighter ships, beside passenger ships, that would have been on the same routes and timeframes. Could this character walk out to a balcony and more than likely see other ships passing by? Could these passenger ships be close enough to shorelines that it could be seen what was there, given the lack of rain or fog?

Thanks!

thesocialpet wrote: Question: The books I am reading by McAdam say that there were also freighter ships. Could this character walk out to a balcony and more than likely see other ships passing by? Could these passenger ships be close enough to shorelines that it could be seen what was there, given the lack of rain or fog?
Thanks!

Yes, he could be out on the deck and have seen not only the freighters (many were still sail driven), but also the ships of other steamship companies that plied the Boston – New York route, excursion steamers, ferries and tugs. He could also have seen sailboats like schooners, yawls, sloops and ketches and small fishing vessels. His ship could have passed frigates and other US Navy vessels. If he timed it right, he could have viewed some of the the America’s Cup!

In good weather, on many of the costal steamers you could see the shoreline and its features. This was especially true in the Sound.

Sunday operation of both the steamboats and passenger trains was limited for many years because very little business was conducted on Sundays and in New England there were societal pressures to have things quiet on Sunday. Railroads beat the boat companies to the first regular Sunday operation when they garnered contracts to carry U. S. Mail. With a mail car on a train, the operation was beyond the regulation of State or local authorities. Perishable freight and livestock if in transit on Sunday kept on moving. Most rail mainlines in New England generally only had one or two Sunday trains until the 1880s. By then, the populace consisted of many immigrant types who could only visit family and countrymen on the day factories were closed. I have just acquired a Fall River Line folder from the early PROVIDENCE and BRISTOL years and it announces the operation of Sunday sailings from mid-June to mid-September. My 1890 Official Guide has the Fall River Line on a daily schedule. Sometimes, in fair weather months, a Sunday excursion would be operated using one of the steamers to show it off to the public, who might never ever get a chance to sail on it.

Unlike a railroad, the steamboats customarily had only one sailing each day and it was overnight. There was a fleet of coastal steamers leaving New York about the same hour and from various New England ports for arrival about the same time in New York. Connecting trains ran from most of the ports. The New Haven Line had a train connection from Belle Dock, New Haven to Hartford and Springfield, Hartford Line had a terminus near the State St. Station in Hartford...but no boat train, the Norwich Line docked at Allyn's Point with a boat train to Boston via Norwich, Putnam and Blackstone, through cars to Worcester, the Stonington boat had a train to Kingston, Providence and Boston and there was the Fall River Line and its boat train. Providence did not always have a big passenger boat; service was sporadic because of both the Stonington and Fall River boats, nearby, and its own shallow harbor which saw some of the big boats scrape bottom until the harbor was dredged.


The steamer was probably more comfortable than sleeping car on a train, at least in 1886, for those who paid for a stateroom. However, most folks traveling alone were grouped by sex and put up in a mens' cabin or ladies' cabin, probably close to dormitory like accomodations.

At the Springfield crew and engine change point, you'd probably feel a gentle nudge as the replacement engine was coupled onto the train. Most passengers would be asleep and would not be aware of the crew change. The conductors would exchange greetings and the conductor going off duty would hand over necessary paperwork to the man coming on duty.

You could ride the different steamers on different dates. Some timetables showed Arrangement of Steamers so that you knew the Providence would sail out of Fall River on say June 1, 3 and 5 and the Bristol would sail on June 2, 4 and 6. Unlike a railroad operation with frequent trains, extra trains and changing schedules, the steamboat schedules often listed the masters of each boat and once they made it to their top command, kept it until retirement.

Several lines had freight boats too. The Fall River Line had the City of Taunton, City of Brockton and City of Fall River. The Stonington Line had the Nashua (with an oscillating engine) and the Norwich Line had the City of Norwich. I don't know if all of these were in service in 1886.

You had a chance to see other vessels enroute, especially out of New York where departures were close to each other and at a decent hour. Long Island Sound isn't much more than about 15 miles wide at the widest and vessels sailed in charted sea lanes which avoided known obstructions. There are also rules for conduct on the sea lanes, keep to the right, and don't forget that unpowered craft (sailing vessels) have the right of way over powered vessels.

Regarding the question about steamer vs. train, I'd guess that the dormitory-type cabin accommodations described above by edbear would be cheaper than a coach ticket by train -- perhaps the steamship historians in this forum can amplify that. I would also guess that those dorm accommodations on the steamer would be more comfortable than a coach seat on an overnight train -- coach seats of that era were backbreakers for anyone trying to pass the night (never mind sleeping) in them. If you're close to a large library, see if they have a book called The American Railroad Passenger Car (I think that's the exact title), by John H. White, Jr., curator emeritus of the railroad section of the Smithsonian. It's the bible of American passenger-car design; take a look at photos of passenger coaches of that era and imagine spending the night in one of them. It's also relevant that until about the mid-19th century water transportation was universally favored over land because of the truly horrible conditions of stagecoach travel, and travelers were just beginning to appreciate that rail travel was nothing like being jarred and jounced aboard a stagecoach; thus, people tended to think first about going by boat before considering overland travel.

Lots of great information!

Here are a couple of more questions based on what was said.

After writing the 40 pages that lead up to the start of the trips, I now have a better idea on some things. The trips will start in the fall of 1885, say around September, and then continue for several more months. And, he will be making the trips about every two weeks, probably on a Thursday night and into Friday. He will taking the overnight Fall River train/steamship from Boston to New York, stay in New York for the day and then return back to Boston that Friday night.

So what would be the different types of sleeping accommodations on a steamship available for a man traveling alone, average weight and average height? Somebody said that food would be available. Any ideas what would be served? Would there by entertainment like musicians or plays?

This was the schedule I was going to have him take:

Leaves Boston:
Leaves by 6 PM at Old Colony Station
Arrives in Fall River by 7:20 PM
Leaves Fall River by 7:30 PM
Arrives in New York City by 7 AM at Pier 28, North River, Foot of Murray Street

Leaves New York City:
Leaves by 5 PM from Pier 28, North River, Foot of Murray Street
Arrives at Fall River at approximately 4 to 5 AM
Pick up Old Colony Railroad at 5:30 AM
Arrives in Boston at 6:50 AM at Old Colony Station in Kneeland

Would that be accurate?

I am trying to find out when in 1885 or 1886 the America's Cup would have been sailing. The website did not give any specific months, just year's. I know it was just held here in San Francisco in August and September. I don't know if those have been the standard months.

Thanks!

If he were a man of means or was traveling with valuables, he'd probably book a stateroom which would have been like a private bedroom in a home, but smaller, but equipped with a real bed. Some even had private bathrooms. Otherwise he'd be in the mens' cabin which would be a bit more luxurious than an army barracks. In 1886 no one was dieting. The PROVIDENCE, PILGRIM and BRISTOL all had dining rooms and it would have been hearty New England fare and in season. Beef all the time and a selection of poultry and New England seafood. Fish meals on Fridays were very common throughout Eastern New England up until about 40 years ago. Vegetables would be those in season so from October to June, there'd be an abundance of squash, potatoes, turnips, the stuff that lasts. Apple,squash,pumpkin and mince pies would have been the dessert items. Bacon and eggs for breakfast. Refrigeration was not a problem. Ice was harvested in from New England lakes and stored in icehouses insulated with sawdust and the ice was dispatched in trains of sawdust insulated boxcars to where it was needed. The Fall River Line operated in state waters that were wide open so to speak so there were no restrictions on alcohol consumption. The 5 pm departure from New York would leave quite a bit of time from departure from New York to bedtime, even with dinner...it is supper in New England...so the passenger might spend some time in the saloon, the social hall. (some outfits called it the salon) This was probably like a hotel lobby with tables and easy chairs. Some travelers of a gregarious nature could probably get a card game going, other travelers might catch up on their correspondence or reading; there were afternoon papers back then. Some of the steamers had orchestras which played popular tunes of the day....no dancing permitted on the Fall River Line until the 1930s. If it were a Sunday sailing, the Fall River Line's orchestras played classical music. The PILGRIM was electrically lighted. I don't know if the PROVIDENCE and BRISTOL were ever converted. They were lit by gas. Look up Pintsch gas. For some representative interiors see if you can find THE NIGHT BOAT by George Hilton, a Howell-North book.

The Fall River Line steamboats also carried freight, enough so that by the mid-1880s, the line introduced some boats designed for freight only. The passenger boats would have carried priority type freight, fish and seafood in barrels packed in ice, apples and cranberries for the markets and restaurants of New York and shoes from Brockton and fabric from the Fall River mills. Eastbound freight might have been small machinery and critical machine parts from the factories of Brooklyn, Jersey City and Paterson, raw cotton and maybe watermelons and other Southern crops (probably came up on Ocean SS Co of Savannah - C of GA Ry). The U. S. Post Office carried only first class mail until about 1913, so any kind of package, like what's on a UPS truck today, went by private express company. There were several large express companies, closely affiliated with the railroads in different areas of the country. I believe the New England area railroads used Adams Express. By the way, the railroad owned steamboat lines (and some of the independents on good terms with the railroads) were considered part of the railroad network and through ticketing and freight billing could be issued from the starting point of a journey or initial shipping point of the freight. Big stuff like printing presses and machine tools went on the freight boats. Animals went on the freight boats. Licensed officers on the boats had their quarters just aft of the pilot house and the highest ranking had their own cabins. Lower ranked probably had to share a cabin. Deckhands and coal passers lived in the forecastle and in squalid conditions. There were two types, boys off the farm who did not stay long and grizzled veterans who probably battled the bottle. Most of these guys probably did live on the boat. Crews right up to the master generally came from a radius of a few miles of the home port, Fall River or Newport. A lot of the masters probably went to sea as teenagers, 14 or 15. That diamond shaped device behind the stacks is the walking beam. One end came out of the single cylinder engine and the other was connected to the paddle shaft. By the way, those big Fall River Line (and paddlers of other lines) normally berthed without tugboats. Judicious use of one paddle wheel or the other could get those boats docked without assistance.

A couple more questions.

I remember the old TV show, Love Boat, and, upon the arrival of all the passengers, the crew would welcome them. I thought the reason they were doing this was to establish an initial relationship with the passengers from in the beginning, and to view everybody who was coming aboard. I have never been on a cruise ship, so I don't know if this routine happens on current cruise ships.

Would something like this "welcoming" routine happen on the Fall River steamships? I know that cruises last for several days, and these trips are only for a few hours, but would the captain and/or crew attempt to establish some sort of 'welcoming" or "meet the passengers" on each trip? After the ship was on the way, would the ship be turned over to lower staff, allowing the captain or "vice captain" (I don't know the technical term) to wander the ship to greet and welcome the passengers? I thought this might happen, especially if the ships tended to draw "people of influence" that the captain might want to welcome and bring attention to their presence. Would the captain's position be partially political and a warm hand to welcome all passengers?

Also, there is documentation of the conductor of the Boat Train and his glorified career with that train. Is there something similar for the steamships? Were the captains well known to draw attention to each ship?

Thanks!

The boat was overnight transportation, not a party boat. The Captain (Master) probably looked over the crowd as they made their way from train to boat, but he'd have very little time to spend there. He'd already made sure everything was right with the vessel and he would have conferred with his officers and engineer. The posted time between train arrival and cast off was given as 10 minutes. The passengers would first stop at the Purser's Office to get room assignments and stateroom keys. There'd be uniformed porters to either direct passengers or to carry their luggage. It was not a Love Boat type situation. In later years, 1920s-30s, New England Steamship profiled their Captains and most of them were dignified, whiskered fellows. NESS stressed experience. Eastern Steamship profiled its officers as youthful. McAdam's books indicate that some regular passengers did indeed know their Captains and were very partial to sailing on vessels with certain crews. The Boat Train had one conductor, Asa Porter, who had a very, very lengthy seniority on the job.