Septa wants requests on how to improve service

Steampowered wrote:i emailed them about lame Trenton connections, and often 2 hrs of no service, they just blamed Amtrak ,and said there was nothing they could do. This is why the trenton NJT line ,should be extended to 30th st, why cant septa do , what NJT does all the time.

Hey SteamPowered, my real "handle" is Manny Smith, the newest Public Information Manager with SEPTA. First, whom did you email that you received such a limited response? I'd suggest reaching out to our Social Media Team (@septa_social). They are staffed 7 days per week, and provide real replies to inquiries just like yours.

It just so happens that another customer (was that you?), asked a similar question to yours about Trenton Line Service, and they listed 4 reasons why it's tough for us to be able to add service on that line. The reasons posted include:
[*]Trenton Line trains are currently scheduled about 45 mins apart; and there is a good amount of ridership at the stations outside of the CC ones
[*]Limited crew & equipment ability pose a challenge to adding a new trip(s)
[*]In the past, there have been issues with adequate platform space at Trenton Transit Center, shared with both NJT & AMTRAK service

Even though that is the answer today, SEPTA wants to be able to go where our customers want to go. Did you formally submit a suggestion for our Annual Service Plan? You have up until the end of this month, every idea is fully considered for implementation.http://septa.org/notice/asp/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lastly, feel free to keep in touch, I'm always keeping up here...and you can message me directly for my work email address if you have any follow up questions (although its better to reach out to @septa_social first, since their team is there 7 days to answer your questions....Im just one guy)

Steampowered wrote:Even if you still did have to change trains, always have it so westbounds trains to philly always have a connection.

While I'd personally like to see more frequent SEPTA service out of Trenton from 5PM to 6:30PM, when the NJT rush hour trains are arriving at Trenton every 10 or 20 minutes, I understand that SEPTA's job is to get people *out* of Philadelphia at that time of day, and there may be limited equipment or track time available for us reverse commuters.

loufah wrote:

Steampowered wrote:Even if you still did have to change trains, always have it so westbounds trains to philly always have a connection.

While I'd personally like to see more frequent SEPTA service out of Trenton from 5PM to 6:30PM, when the NJT rush hour trains are arriving at Trenton every 10 or 20 minutes, I understand that SEPTA's job is to get people *out* of Philadelphia at that time of day, and there may be limited equipment or track time available for us reverse commuters.

But septa cant even handle , late evening saturdays. All my philly and bucks friends just meet in Hamilton ,and head to nyc that way, No one uses the train. I go to philly every Friday eve , but i usually either stay overnight or drive. Because there is no service ( thats useable) after 10p . I dont want to hang around TTC for an hour.

although noone you know uses the Trenton train, you're exaggerating when you say that noone uses it.
Could you please try to follow R3 Passenger's example and express your personal views as your own, and not as absolutes, in other words state opinion as opinion and not fact?
My end points since I moved to Burlington NJ, and got sailboat partners on the Pennsylvania side are Torresdale-Croydon and Center City Philly-Trenton. I've seen a bunch of people changing trains at Trenton, and a bunch of people getting on and off at the intermediate stops. I have often met people at Torresdale or Croydon, and seen other folks alighting from the trains or waiting on the platforms when I pick up my sailboat guests.
And many of those rides are on weekends.
Yes, I'd like to see more frequent service, yes I get irritated when there's a big crowd at Trenton connecting from NJT and SEPTA tantalizes them with 4 cars, but herds them into only the 2 cars furthest from the NJT train on the same platform.
At least SEPTA eliminated the ticket vending machines and the big rush for people trying to use them
Did you hear anything back from manuelsmith or @septa_social first?

Hey Manny, what is that, one of those newfangled mybook, facespace or tweeter addresses? You yunguns, and Public Information Managers gotta realize some of us old folks aren't as hep to the lingo. I thought email addresses needed something before the @.

Patrick Boylan wrote:although noone you know uses the Trenton train, you're exaggerating when you say that noone uses it.
Could you please try to follow R3 Passenger's example and express your personal views as your own, and not as absolutes, in other words state opinion as opinion and not fact?
My end points since I moved to Burlington NJ, and got sailboat partners on the Pennsylvania side are Torresdale-Croydon and Center City Philly-Trenton. I've seen a bunch of people changing trains at Trenton, and a bunch of people getting on and off at the intermediate stops. I have often met people at Torresdale or Croydon, and seen other folks alighting from the trains or waiting on the platforms when I pick up my sailboat guests.
And many of those rides are on weekends.
Yes, I'd like to see more frequent service, yes I get irritated when there's a big crowd at Trenton connecting from NJT and SEPTA tantalizes them with 4 cars, but herds them into only the 2 cars furthest from the NJT train on the same platform.
At least SEPTA eliminated the ticket vending machines and the big rush for people trying to use them
Did you hear anything back from manuelsmith or @septa_social first?

Hey Manny, what is that, one of those newfangled mybook, facespace or tweeter addresses? You yunguns, and Public Information Managers gotta realize some of us old folks aren't as hep to the lingo. I thought email addresses needed something before the @.

Vist the Hamilton lot one day, less then 1/2 are from NJ, and why is your opinion, anymore Anecdotal then mine ? Remember the big graphic done by NJT showing the exact thing i just stated ?

Steampowered wrote:

Patrick Boylan wrote:although noone you know uses the Trenton train, you're exaggerating when you say that noone uses it.
Could you please try to follow R3 Passenger's example and express your personal views as your own, and not as absolutes, in other words state opinion as opinion and not fact?
My end points since I moved to Burlington NJ, and got sailboat partners on the Pennsylvania side are Torresdale-Croydon and Center City Philly-Trenton. I've seen a bunch of people changing trains at Trenton, and a bunch of people getting on and off at the intermediate stops. I have often met people at Torresdale or Croydon, and seen other folks alighting from the trains or waiting on the platforms when I pick up my sailboat guests.
And many of those rides are on weekends.
Yes, I'd like to see more frequent service, yes I get irritated when there's a big crowd at Trenton connecting from NJT and SEPTA tantalizes them with 4 cars, but herds them into only the 2 cars furthest from the NJT train on the same platform.
At least SEPTA eliminated the ticket vending machines and the big rush for people trying to use them
Did you hear anything back from manuelsmith or @septa_social first?

Hey Manny, what is that, one of those newfangled mybook, facespace or tweeter addresses? You yunguns, and Public Information Managers gotta realize some of us old folks aren't as hep to the lingo. I thought email addresses needed something before the @.

Vist the Hamilton lot one day, less then 1/2 are from NJ, and why is your opinion, anymore Anecdotal then mine ? Remember the big graphic done by NJT showing the exact thing i just stated ?

So all of the cars in the lot must be from NJ?!

morris&essex4ever wrote:

Steampowered wrote:

Patrick Boylan wrote:although noone you know uses the Trenton train, you're exaggerating when you say that noone uses it.
Could you please try to follow R3 Passenger's example and express your personal views as your own, and not as absolutes, in other words state opinion as opinion and not fact?
My end points since I moved to Burlington NJ, and got sailboat partners on the Pennsylvania side are Torresdale-Croydon and Center City Philly-Trenton. I've seen a bunch of people changing trains at Trenton, and a bunch of people getting on and off at the intermediate stops. I have often met people at Torresdale or Croydon, and seen other folks alighting from the trains or waiting on the platforms when I pick up my sailboat guests.
And many of those rides are on weekends.
Yes, I'd like to see more frequent service, yes I get irritated when there's a big crowd at Trenton connecting from NJT and SEPTA tantalizes them with 4 cars, but herds them into only the 2 cars furthest from the NJT train on the same platform.
At least SEPTA eliminated the ticket vending machines and the big rush for people trying to use them
Did you hear anything back from manuelsmith or @septa_social first?

Hey Manny, what is that, one of those newfangled mybook, facespace or tweeter addresses? You yunguns, and Public Information Managers gotta realize some of us old folks aren't as hep to the lingo. I thought email addresses needed something before the @.

Vist the Hamilton lot one day, less then 1/2 are from NJ, and why is your opinion, anymore Anecdotal then mine ? Remember the big graphic done by NJT showing the exact thing i just stated ?

So all of the cars in the lot must be from NJ?!

Isnt your point, that the trains are an essential point of our life, you just said the opposite, and septa really has no purpose to the people living on trenton septa line, they can just use NJT. Is that what you claim now ?

Take a deep breath guys.

Steampowered wrote:Vist the Hamilton lot one day, less then 1/2 are from NJ, and why is your opinion, anymore Anecdotal then mine ?

I don't have occasion to visit the Hamilton lot. Other than trying to count the NJ vs other states' license plates as you suggest, what reasons do you think I have for going to Hamilton?
Notice that I have not asked you to ride between Philly or Trenton and Torresdale or Croydon, or to count their parking lots' out of state licenses. I, and others, have reasons to use those stations. I don't expect you, or anyone else, to have the same reasons as I do. I don't conclude that since I don't need or want to go to Hamilton that it means noone uses Hamilton station.
Your opinion is no less valid or vital than mine. It's also no more valid or vital than mine, and I will be amazed if you can find any place where I ever tried to say otherwise. But you have not phrased your posts as opinion, what you've posted you've phrased as fact. I will defend to your death your right to express your opinion.

This conversation sounds remarkably like one where you said SEPTA's Trenton line is useless.
http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... d&start=90" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; R7 Trenton Stations (or Lack of) page 7

amtrak.com/ccurl/96/928/PennsylvaniaServiceStudies.pdf Pennsylvania Service Studies - PRIIA Section 224 page 12

With the elimination of most Amtrak stops at Cornwells Heights it is likely that some northbound
commuters from Pennsylvania now drive to New Jersey and park at a NJ Transit station, most commonly
Trenton or Hamilton or now take a SEPTA train to connect at Trenton. Correspondingly, SEPTA reports
show that annual boardings at Cornwells Heights in the direction of Trenton have nearly doubled after the
termination of the Clocker service, from 12,700 annual boardings in 2003 to nearly 21,200 in 2007, as
shown in Figure 7.

That little nugget I hope shows that your statements that noone uses the train and that it's useless are not true. Maybe you meant noone you know uses the train, but that's not clear from your post.

Steampowered wrote:Remember the big graphic done by NJT showing the exact thing i just stated ?

no, I don't remember that big graphic. Please provide it. And please do not, as you did in prior threads and private messages, just give a link to something that doesn't contain the graphic.

Patrick Boylan wrote:

Steampowered wrote:Vist the Hamilton lot one day, less then 1/2 are from NJ, and why is your opinion, anymore Anecdotal then mine ?

I don't have occasion to visit the Hamilton lot. Other than trying to count the NJ vs other states' license plates as you suggest, what reasons do you think I have for going to Hamilton?
Notice that I have not asked you to ride between Philly or Trenton and Torresdale or Croydon, or to count their parking lots' out of state licenses. I, and others, have reasons to use those stations. I don't expect you, or anyone else, to have the same reasons as I do. I don't conclude that since I don't need or want to go to Hamilton that it means noone uses Hamilton station.
Your opinion is no less valid or vital than mine. It's also no more valid or vital than mine, and I will be amazed if you can find any place where I ever tried to say otherwise. But you have not phrased your posts as opinion, what you've posted you've phrased as fact. I will defend to your death your right to express your opinion.

This conversation sounds remarkably like one where you said SEPTA's Trenton line is useless.
http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... d&start=90" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; R7 Trenton Stations (or Lack of) page 7

amtrak.com/ccurl/96/928/PennsylvaniaServiceStudies.pdf Pennsylvania Service Studies - PRIIA Section 224 page 12

With the elimination of most Amtrak stops at Cornwells Heights it is likely that some northbound
commuters from Pennsylvania now drive to New Jersey and park at a NJ Transit station, most commonly
Trenton or Hamilton or now take a SEPTA train to connect at Trenton. Correspondingly, SEPTA reports
show that annual boardings at Cornwells Heights in the direction of Trenton have nearly doubled after the
termination of the Clocker service, from 12,700 annual boardings in 2003 to nearly 21,200 in 2007, as
shown in Figure 7.

That little nugget I hope shows that your statements that noone uses the train and that it's useless are not true. Maybe you meant noone you know uses the train, but that's not clear from your post.

Steampowered wrote:Remember the big graphic done by NJT showing the exact thing i just stated ?

no, I don't remember that big graphic. Please provide it. And please do not, as you did in prior threads and private messages, just give a link to something that doesn't contain the graphic.

you certainly have an ax to grind young man

Steampowered wrote:But septa cant even handle , late evening saturdays. All my philly and bucks friends just meet in Hamilton ,and head to nyc that way

SEPTA and NJT run trains hourly on Saturday night. SEPTA's last train out of Trenton is at 1:47AM. What times are you seeing a coverage issue?

SEPTA's job is to get commuters into Philadelphia in the morning and out in the evening. Other times, it mostly serves people who can't afford cars. If you're going from Philly to NYC and back on a Saturday night, you're in neither category. Amtrak would be your best bet.

[Edited for clarity. Hopefully I haven't done Patrick a disservice by omitting any important context that affects his followup message.]

I have to disagree with you. SEPTA's, and any other transport outfit's, job is to move people. Chances are most of their customers will be Mon-Fri into downtown am out of downtown pm, but it's extremely shortsighted and inefficient not to try to cater to demand outside of those peaks. They've already invested heavily in capacity, primarily in SEPTA Trenton line's case the cars themselves, since Amtrak handles much of the rest: track, stations, dispatching. For the most part utilizing that capacity in off peak is found money, or at least usually more marginal income for not as much marginal cost.

And I have to disagree that their job should be so Philly centric. Many have argued already that a big problem, not really easily surmountable, most transit outfits have is that they don't or can't tap into intra-suburban traffic, and leave that to the automobile.

Plus in this case "Amtrak...your best bet" requires that one drive to Trenton, or go backwards to 30th St. I hate to see rr.net posters encourage driving.

loufah wrote:

Steampowered wrote:But septa cant even handle , late evening saturdays. All my philly and bucks friends just meet in Hamilton ,and head to nyc that way

SEPTA's job is to get commuters into Philadelphia in the morning and out in the evening. Other times, it mostly serves people who can't afford cars. If you're going to NYC and back on a Saturday night, you're in neither category. Amtrak would be your best bet.

Well not everyone can afford amtrak, and not everyone lives in Philly, what if you live in morrisville or 2 or 3 stops west? Apparently this thread needs to renamed. No criticism of Septa, or NJT. If amtrak was the solution ,would we talking about it now?

Steampowered wrote:Well not everyone can afford amtrak, and not everyone lives in Philly, what if you live in morrisville or 2 or 3 stops west?

On Saturday nights, there's hourly service to Trenton which meets hourly NJT service, with a 15- or 20-minute layover. Are there other times of day that you'd like improved?

Patrick Boylan wrote:And I have to disagree that their job should be so Philly centric

Sorry if I gave the impression that that *should* be SEPTA's job. As someone who rides SEPTA about 4 days a week, without ever setting foot on a Philadelphia street (except for the walk from 30th Street Station to the MFL station), I'd love to see better service in the western suburbs and on the Trenton line, but looking at the schedules it's easy to see what their focus *is*.