CSX Derailment near Amsterdam, NY - 6/27/13

SST wrote:This accident and blockage got me wondering: How many trains going thru Albany actually stop in NY vs pass through NY? So, if a train is coming from Chicago and goes to Boston, what other route could it take to get around this?

I was thinking about this Friday my self. I supose they could they could run it over to the D&H and run North / South to Canada or Run up / down the river line and transfer to NYS&W to Binghamton and run North / South to Syracuse or hand the train off to NS via a route in PA? any of these options could be put out on the table for thought.

Across NY possible detours:

Southern Tier Line and up River Line
NYS&W to Binghamton and Tier Line
NYS&W or Tier to Binghamton and up D&H to Albany
CSX across Sand Patch and up to Selkirk

Also possible to send trains via Canadian routes, such as via Watertown/Massena to Montreal and down D&H.

Conrail would just send them down the old PRR when something like this happened, too.

charlie/noel; i agree to a point. however there is a need for redundancy in train control. i offer the NORAC rule 562 which is cab and no wayside. the payback is more trains on the same trackage. shouldn't csxt adopt this?
one of the proposals i generated was for ns to use our equipment on a coal move over Saluda mountain to Augusta for SCE&G 's Savannah river station. ns' problem was train control down the mountain. it seems their ops required setting the retainers on all cars to 1/2 (labor) and adding rear power to accelerate brake-pipe changes. i offered to equip our cars with ep60 braking and pay for cab controllers ( about $20k per cab. 4 cabs) ns declined the move because 'they couldn't insure that they could assign the correct power units all the time".i offered that we would, simply, paint x's on the so-equiped power. fail-safe. of course, when threatened, csxt dropped their rate. SCE&G won. ns lost a cost-effective approach for their share of this major coal move. ( they were doing a dig-out of gons and trucking to the station. expensive.)
payback on electric brakes is huge. why aren't electric brakes now universal on all new car builds. the oil pipeline cars come to mind. perfect oppotunity. my point is that railroads should do a better job of inserting technology improvements in operations. ken patrick

Being that the B&A has used Cab-signal technology under Conrail and CSX (I'm not sure if this started under Conrail
or predecessors PC or NYC.....Noel?) I can't see why it wouldn't work universally. I'm thinking the "upgrade" to Positive
Train Control may alleviate some issues. Someone earlier mentioned automatic train stop.......no idea why that was ever
discontinued. Was that abolished during Penn Central?

Charlie

TAN: Remember, you're only the customer, it's their railroad. If you want to determine how a railroad is run, build or buy your own.

It appears this thread is now also derailed.

Electric brakes on freight trains? The cost to equip existing equipment with electric brakes would be huge and certainally beyond industry resources. I am not convinced that it would be anywhere near worth the investment either. The question, new cars, again maybe if the train only has new cars in the consist but again how often would that occur? As for cab signals without block signals, it seems to work all right on the B & A and some other places where this system is in use and maybe it would work on many other freight lines as well. Metro-North uses this system too but their's is geared for very frequent commuter trains and Amtrak trains and it does not function to move tonnage freight trains very well so for CSX the Metro North set up is a "no go" in my opinion. As for cab signals on the B & A, this was done as a Conrail project back in the late 80's or very early 90's when the second track over much of the B & A was pulled up, the remaining track upgraded and cab signals were installed. The train stop system over all of the former New York Central was removed from service by the Penn Central sometime around 1971 or 1972, I don't have the exact date in my head. It worked but it was far inferior to the cab signal system used by both the Pennsylvania and the New Haven at the time.
Noel Weaver

noel- the cost is about $1500 per 89' car. probably a bit cheaper on 60' because of cable lengths. a measureable maintenance reduction. all cars have equal brake application so the first in the consist don't take on more of the braking than those in the rear. and, of course, train handling improvements . no slack/buff problems. as for mixed , the pneumatic is the avenue towards total fleet conversion. at some point the fleet will be total e/p. in the interim, pneumatic remains. i'm thinking that new unit train cars are e/p.
wayside is problematic. time to assist train crews with real-time communications. ken patrick

KEN PATRICK wrote:noel- the cost is about $1500 per 89' car. probably a bit cheaper on 60' because of cable lengths. a measureable maintenance reduction. all cars have equal brake application so the first in the consist don't take on more of the braking than those in the rear. and, of course, train handling improvements . no slack/buff problems. as for mixed , the pneumatic is the avenue towards total fleet conversion. at some point the fleet will be total e/p. in the interim, pneumatic remains. i'm thinking that new unit train cars are e/p.
wayside is problematic. time to assist train crews with real-time communications. ken patrick

Conrail had experimented it on their coal trains.. for a year or so then they stopped using it. they did it did helped to stop quicker.. but I dont know why they stopped doing it.. Millions of cars... Carmen are giving a fist I guess...

From the "What goes around comes around" department: There is talk on the NYSW Yahoo group that there is a derailment on the NYSW, and they might run a detour or two on the CSX River Line/Mohawk Sub. JS

So is it safe to assume the tracks are fixed and traffic is back to normal (although possible slow ordered in that stretch) ???? Also did any of the area flooding effect the clean operations ?

Anybody know when they got moving again?

Freddy wrote:Anybody know when they got moving again?

I heard and saw alot of trains on CSX yesterday, so it seems to be 24 hours or more since service was restored.

BTW, L090 just came through East Rochester on the Chicago Line about 45 minutes ago.

Of a different note: Crew for detour of SU100 via CSX is on duty at 205 pm today 7-3. Crew will taxi to Dewitt yard in Syracuse to get the necessary paperwork then taxi to the train itself. Train is operating on CSX as symbol Z224-03. Probably wont depart Syracuse much before dinner time.

Due to Whitney Point NYS&W derailment due to reported washout.

Matt Langworthy wrote:

Freddy wrote:Anybody know when they got moving again?

I heard and saw alot of trains on CSX yesterday, so it seems to be 24 hours or more since service was restored.

BTW, L090 just came through East Rochester on the Chicago Line about 45 minutes ago.

Thanks.