Downeast Scenic Railroad (DSRX) Discussion - 2005-2010

The Downeast Scenic RR has recently acquired several donated pieces of used passenger equipment, as well as an antique outside frame wooden boxcar and a flatcar. Numerous agencies and individuals have donated used construction equipment and expertise, not to mention hours upon hours of donated time. This is going rather well. Unfortunately, the brain-numbing state government has elected to start tearing up rails in the Calais-Pembroke region to make an ATV trail. This shortens the original line and precludes restoring rail transportation to the most depressed part of the state (Washington County) in an age of outrageous fuel prices. Perhaps the success of the DSRR will make an impact on the potential of rail transport where it could make a serious economic impact in the 21st century.

Well put.
What your state, it's people, it's government, it's leaders really need to get out of that old way of thinking fast. Diesel & gasoline prices are here to stay, and will continue to rise. You cannot, I repeat cannot afford to resort to the good ole boy, that's the way it goes here mentality. Your backwards thinking will not be a nuisance anymore, but a matter of survival.

The NIMBY's, granola feeder's, and naysayers listen up. You best get Rail promoted fast and step up to the plate soon. China, India, Russia etc. are now demanding energy, resources, raw material like never before. The airline industries are now getting notices to become fuel efficient, better air, structure, and engine designs or look for another job.

Rail is where we need to be.

Another layer of controversy- The Bangor Daily News editorialized today, stating (I am paraphrasing here) "the rails to trails program has proven to boost the economy in other states by adding businesses such as bed and breakfasts and diners". This is totally off-base. The region needs a gravel hauler and twice a day passenger run in each direction. You want business? Start providing services, and gravel is abundant in eastern Maine. The only way to haul it is by hopper car or barge, not by dump truck on the interstate or route 1.

The region needs a gravel hauler and twice a day passenger run in each direction.

Why?

Because gravel is an abundant commodity in the downeast region; because it should be hauled entirely by rail over long distances, rather than truck; because it would employ hundreds of people on both ends of the service; because it wouldn't be subject to weather and tourist loads; because it brings the trackage up to serviceable standards and would allow for occasional tourist trains during summer months, which would, in turn, nourish local businesses at line side.

What do you mean, a few Starbucks wanna-bes and many naive walkers aren't good for the economy?! Can't Washington County live on TRAIL-SIDE doughnut shops alone? I always thought even a seasonal passenger service, like the old Amtrak Cape Codders, could have been a huge benefit for that area of the State. Bringing the people in bunches sure does a lot more than bringing a few via bike, ATV or snow mobile alone.

Even though it makes me sick to see the Trail Advocates and their somewhat brainwashed followers touting their plan, you have to look at it this way.....They, Sunrise Trail Coalition, are now responsible for raising funds to manicure the ROW.
Pulling the ties, rehabbing the trail, and laying fly ash or whatever.......all up to STC and whoever helps out. Anyway, they can't pave it. Say down the line, the State sees evidence of a need for rail service, the ROW will be practically waiting for ties already. The bridges and structures will have to be maintained to a degree as well. I say let the trail suckers do all the dirty work. Some State administration other than the present one might actually care about what happens outside of the Portland-Augusta area and see the benefits. The prices of gas will eventually affect everyone who drives a vehicle. It's just a matter of time before even the stupid ones figure this out.

I've hiked about 50 miles of the Calais Branch now. There are some damn nice spots east of Washington Junction. Even though I like walking the mileage, I've envisioned the sound of a train hitting a distant crossing in places such as Columbia Falls and Franklin. The University of Maine at Machias could even benefit from having students trained in instead of having to drive way the heck out there, especially after Winter Break. Reminds me of back home in Connecticut when Amtrak's MONTREALOR used to carry tons of UCONN students to and from the area of the main campus at Storrs.

I've always pushed for freight out on the line for LPG and container traffic, but that's for another thread. Some day, it could happen, so let the trail advocates foot the work while we sit back.

Richard Glueck wrote:Another layer of controversy- The Bangor Daily News editorialized today, stating (I am paraphrasing here) "the rails to trails program has proven to boost the economy in other states by adding businesses such as bed and breakfasts and diners". This is totally off-base. The region needs a gravel hauler and twice a day passenger run in each direction. You want business? Start providing services, and gravel is abundant in eastern Maine. The only way to haul it is by hopper car or barge, not by dump truck on the interstate or route 1.

A bunch of us fought this idea off for several years but to no avail. The looneys in Augusta have prevailed. Sad!

The real SHTF will happen when people who want to use this "trail" on foot become victims of drunken idiots on ATV's. I can't wait for the BDN screaming headlines!

The trouble with Maine is that there is no one in Augusta with any brains or the ability to think ahead at all. Nada! Zip!

This is contagious and infects most of the people who serve in the Legislature also.

The people of Maine voted to buy this line and preserve it for rail use.

Baldacci, like King George V, issues a "royal proclomation" to tear it up. And it is done. But woe is the people of Maine.

There is still a feeble protest going on but it will be to no avail I am afraid.

The future of transportation in the USA, especially in this age of increasingly rare, and expensive, fuel is on rail! On a ton-mile basis trains are 4 times more efficient than road borne transport and place little burden on the public treasury unlike our system of public roads and interstate highways!

It seems like the people who achieve political power do so at the expense of possessing any kind of rational thought process. They become so wrapped up in their own ego trips and their own personal agendas that they just can't think.

The hell of it is when the transportation really hits the fan of exorbitantly priced fuel, and thus shipping, they won't even realize what they have done!

Or care!

Nice piece added to thread. The reality is that diesel is the top of the price chart in terms of rising cost. It used to be behind gasoline and now there is a role reversal taking place. This indicates that heavy machinery useage is dramatically on the rise in nations that have accelerated growth dramatically. This key indicator shows diesel will soon be the highest demand fuel.

Diesel out here is $ 5.30 a gallon and rising. Don't sit on this long State of Maine. Rail service will soon makes it's way back to the transportation throne and you really don't want your lines to deteriorate where bringing back online will be a daunting task. Rail is King. The government should be promoting this service now! This is why we as a nation fall behind and beat ourselves up. Europe is way head here and they are engage in forward thinking all the time as a norm. So should we!!

Get your rail on line! Build it and they will come.

The only problem with this thread is getting the politicians to read it and take it seriously. What they are seeing as of this moment is scrap value of steel, and little more. Yes, the ties, roadbed, and rails require heavy rebuilding, but once the entire length of rail has been ripped up, replacing it will be almost impossible. Perhaps this is also realized and intentionally being ignored. Rebuilding it for operations is the way to go, with the payback almost assured. Ripping it up is a short term excuse to help minimalize state budget shortfalls. Ultimately, the income generated by restoring the rail system between Brewer and Calais, by hauling sand and gravel, possibly other freight all year; tourist trains, dinner trains, prom night trains, in season; makes the effort incredibly novel and far-sighted. Similarly, it builds income for the Downeast Scenic RR. portion of the line. The only thorn in this whole thing is the freight connection with Guilford, which is unreliable and s-l-o-w!

While I agree with your sentiments, let's please tone down the political commentary a little and stick to the development of Downeast Scenic.

The Downeast Scenic has done an incredible job of getting this all to come together. Obtaining the lease from the State of Maine in the beginning took incredible salesmanship. They expect to run an engine on about 4 miles of rail through Ellsworth later this year. It will be the first train on any part of the line since, I believe 1984. The strangest part of this whole thing is that at the same time the MeDOTis encouraging the Downeast Scenic it is making plans to tear up 85 miles of the rest of the line through some of the most scenic countryside in eastern Maine. This seems like an oxymoron to most reasonable people. Tourist trains are planned eventually to run from Washington Jct in Ellsworth to Green Lake North of Ellsworth. While this is surely pretty country it is much nicer if one were to ride to the east of Ellsworth also. There is a tremendous amount of tourism in downeast Maine and it all funnels through Ellsworth. Tom Testa had a planning study done on all of this before they dug a shovel full of dirt. The study showed that this area (Acadia) was just about the best opportunity for a tourist railroad anywhere in the USA. Amazing. And more Amazing that the poo bahs in Augusta ignored all of this. What were they thinking. Tom and his group tried hard to keep the state from scrapping the rest of the line also as he could see the vast opportunity. But, being a leaseholder, with the State being the other party I imagine he had to back off at some point. Too bad. I am now living in NH and am glad that the State of NH takes restoring and honoring it's rail heritage seriously, very seriously and is not afraid to spend big bucks on it. ATV trail? Good Grief!

The scrapping of the rest of the line, despite being incredible, has been based on more than a certain amount of untruthfulness. Pardon me but MeDOT spokesmen have routinely said, including the latest BDN story, that the rail on the rest of the branch was "unuseable" because of wear and age. I have walked many parts of that line over the years. It was 85 lb rail dating back to 1895 on some of it. But it was in top condition almost anyplace I looked. Perhaps officials had to spread this story in order to build support for the scrapping. The proof is in the pudding. Reportedly Vaughn Thibodeau of Bangor, Me, the scrapper, has contracted the sale of the removed rail to a concern in Germany. Sale price reputed to be $2.2million. Future use? To be used to build new rail lines in Germany. Someone is lying here!

I hate to put a negative spin on the rail weight bit, but 85lb rail? Seriously, I wonder how they kept the GP38s upright on some on that stuff. On the other hand, anyone who has been out in the areas of District 3 and 4 can attest to how pancaked and chipped the rail heads are from coal traffic. No lie, out near Hoosac Tunnel a couple years back, the inside rail head was 4.5 inches wide while the outside was barely 2 inches from wheel ware. So, comparing quickly by sight, the Calais Branch looks good. We should probably thank abandonment for that or else it would be all beat up like the rest of GRS/PAR/PAS's(flavor of the week) branch mileage. Believe it or not, there is actually some 100+lb rail on rebuilt curves out in the Cable Pool area of Cherryfield. Otherwise, someone has had to notice some of the rail plates out there! Man, most are totally insufficient and small to today's standards. Many are only spiked on opposite corners. The ties? Some are pegged for as far back as 1934. Near Schoodic Marsh, quite a bit of the ROW has ties that are buried in moss with only the rail showing. It would be years before anything other than MOW equipment could run on it. Not that I'm in the same boat as some on here who bash seasonal non-profit passenger service. To them I say, "got a better idea to start with?" Sure we can extend the Downeaster, but you gonna wait and pay for that? It'll never happen anyway. I'm all for any kind of rail traffic, but Amtrak has too much on its plate to extend that far.

I look around the coastal and Downeast area of Maine and wonder how aquatic places of commerce like Searsport and Calais can be under-utilized in capacity so bad in this age.
Unlike many other states, Maine has a rail artery that basically connects a large fraction of its shoreline communities and neighboring towns. Having two sources like that for moving people and freight is not something to scoff at, but the Maine legislature seems to have no problem ignoring much of this area anyway. Typical short-sightedness when it comes to the one-time salvage return on steel. BS to the yuppies and their trailside economic boosts. That always cracks me up!

Like I said once before, let the trail advocates do the work east of Washington Junction. Meanwhile, Downeast Scenic can crank along and stick it to the MeDOT once the State realizes it gave up a gem to walkers and seasonal riders of different modes. Perhaps someday, the rail advocates can indirectly squat in the faces of the trail pushers and say "Thanks for doing the hard work for us! Come ride the train now." I'd definitely do it out of the Machias station, too.

I stopped by DSRX's storage area yesterday and was very pleasantly surprised! Without entering their cordoned off areas, I saw a beautifully restored MEC outside frame wooden boxcar, one hopper, a flatcar, the aforementioned combine, another passenger car under wraps, a caboose, a cut-down log car, and some other stored equipment. I don't know what they have in mind for a locomotive, but I'd love to see an ALCO S1 or S2 in there. At any rate, they are doing a nice job of bringing the line up. Cheers to all the supporting organizations that are donating services, equipment, and in kind materials. Tearing up the rails east of Washington Junction is going to look down-right stupid when these folks are done.

I must point out, one can not divorce the state's role from destroying the line east of Ellsworth. Some of the prettiest scenery in the state is along that trackage, and every serious effort to restore the line has been stymied by the current administration.

A few points:

1. More power to the Downeast Scenic for trying to make a go of it!

2. The Downeast Scenic Railroad may provide an additional incentive to visit or even make a tourist linger longer in the area, but it's unlikely that additional tourist numbers will be generated because of the train. However, tourists would come to Washington County specifically for the rail trail, e.g., snowmobiling or ATVing, so the trail's $ generation per user would be greater.

3. Arguments for retaining the Calais branch for freight go in the "Mountain Sub" category. There ain't no industry that would support the line. LPG? 50-100 cars/yr... Gravel? Where's it going? Probably not far; the state has over 600 gravel pits.

4. Passenger service... also in the Mountain Sub category. Rebuilding the line- even on the cheap - would cost over $100 million if you want reasonable speeds. And consider the whole of Washington County has less than 35k residents... If there was such a demand for public transport, why is there just one Concord Trailways bus and one West Transp. mini-bus serving the route each way daily???

5. 103 yr-old rail (85 lb at that) for service in today's freight or non-tourist/museum passenger environment is not realistic.

..."The Downeast Scenic Railroad may provide an additional incentive to visit or even make a tourist linger longer in the area, but it's unlikely that additional tourist numbers will be generated because of the train"...


Tom Testa, the main power behind the Downeast Scenic commisioned a study of the potential for tourist rail travel on this line before they did anything. I read, from them, that this study turned up the fact that this was just about the best place in the USA to start a tourist railraod as there was major tourist movement through Ellsworth. I believe this will be tremendously successful. The Conway Scenic draws many folks here to ride trains and visit the facilities. It is just one more attraction to bring people.




..."However, tourists would come to Washington County specifically for the rail trail, e.g., snowmobiling or ATVing, so the trail's $ generation per user would be greater"....


This is bunk in my opinion. The only ones who will ride are already riding in the area. Besides this is supposed to be a "multi-use" trail with walkers, bikers, joggers as well as snowmobiles and ATV's. What is going to happen when the first walker is run down by a drunken idiot on his ATV? What is going to happen when the backers of this who hope to use it on foot wake up and find they have been had? Even MeDOT says it will be primarily an ATV trail. Some multi-use. Perhpaps you have been listening to David Whitney and his kind too long!