Wawa Extension

My father works for SEPTA and tells me that, in fact (Not just an opinion) an extension from Elwyn to Wawa WILL begin within two to three years. An extension to West Chester MAY occur, TBD later.

Warning - the following post expresses cynicism and skepticism. If you are offended by either if these 'cisms, please do not read any further.

In 1997 or 1998 there were a number of public meetings held to discuss the extension of the P&W to King of Prussia. Two different SEPTA representatives insisted that, to paraphrase, as sure as you can put your hand on a Bible, there would be N-5 cars running to the Plaza before the end of 2001.

Except it's not public discussion, its an account from an employee who will be constructing it. And they have yet to cancel any past jobs set for his department as faw as I know. If it were lip service from public relations, I'd be as skeptical as you.

Well the point is that SEPTA has a track record of announcing plans and handing out consultant contracts but then never following through with actually building any extensions to the network.

My cynical side says this is just what the board and management would prefer, since they get to spend other people's money on patron^H^H^H^H^H^H professional services, but not have the hassle of operating (and more importantly, paying for) new service.

That explains why they can spend so much money on El reconstruction and on replacing railroad components in kind, but can't find a way to do Quakertown, NHSL to KoP, or an R3 extension (actually a restoration of service they abandoned through neglect) that should cost one-tenth of one of those megaprojects.

It even explains their moving ahead with construction on the 15, since it's not a new service but just a replacement of buses with trolleys. The incremental operating cost isn't so large.

For the people who really want new service (Bucks County, for example), SEPTA is an obstacle rather than a partner.

What all of this shows is that it is easier to keep something than to re- install it once it is gone. If the R-3 had never been cut back from West Chester to Elwyn in the first place, this discussion would be unnecessary. That line--- to West Chester--- had existed in one form or another since 1858!

walt wrote:--- to West Chester---

And beyond IIRC (not as late as WC though, I know.)

SCB2525 wrote:

walt wrote:--- to West Chester---

And beyond IIRC (not as late as WC though, I know.)

There was a branch that crossed Market Street ( in WC) and ran north, but I don't think electrification ever went any further than West Chester.

The track's there, and i think SEPTA still owns it

Thought it went south. Beyond it's the Octoraro branch, no?

It used to connect to the Octoraro branch, but the tracks from Chadds Ford East or North, depending on how u look at it, have been removed. I think they still have the track rights, but no tracks remain. All that remains of the Octoraro branch is from Chadds Ford to Notthingham, which stills see some service for local buisness about 2 days a week. This part of the branch is run by the Morristown & Erie after BVRY decided not to run it any more. BVRY, I think, still runs from Coatsville to Wilmington picking up or dropping off casr for the Octoraro branch. As far for the Octoraro branch, I do beleive SEPTA still owns the tracks rights.

As of a few years ago (and I believe still today) SEPTA still owns the entire Octoraro Branch from Wawa to the Maryland Line, regardless of the condition or presence of tracks on it. The section between Chadds Ford to Wawa was severed in the early '70's (not during Agnes, but another storm) by washouts. The Octoraro Rwy. in the late 70's reopened the branch, constructed the connection to the old Reading Wilmington & Northern, allowing the freight operation today. The Octoraro Branch was always retained by SEPTA (and leased to the various shortlines in succession for local freight service) for possible commuter service, although I suspect that we'll see a certain resident of the underworld going sweater shopping before that ever happens.

SEPTA still owns the entire Octoraro Branch from Wawa to the Maryland Line,

Yes they do

Or if that one doesn't work, just click on "railroad map" (and the type 10 county maps are rather nice as well):

On the railroad map, be sure to check out how many green lines bear "[SEPTA]" on them, that is a line owned by SEPTA, but operated by a shortline freight hauler. In the case of the Octorara Branch it appears to be a subsidiary of the Morristown and Erie.

In my humble opinion, an electrification, double tracking and rebuilding of the Octorara branch out to Kennet Square or, even better Oxford, would make more sense than reinstating service to West Chester. Since the West Chester line turns north for it's terminal, you end up with the R3 terminating close to the R5. This is not a terrible thing, but ideally I'd like to see SEPTA's regional rail system fan out to cover all directions (except from the east, for now) with equal aplomb given poltical restrictions. Straight west of SEPTA is amply covered by the R5 Thorndale, to the north is handled by the various Reading routes, the northwest area is handled by R6 and hopefully SVM, and the southern approach is inadaquately covered by the R2. In this system a R3 that runs straight west from Wawa could do demonstrable good at clearing off the congested roads in the area. Cross County commuters could be catered to with a more direct connection between the Rt101 and the R3 at media, or the Rt102 at Clifton-Alden.

Just about the only problem I could see would be that the Media line isn't exactly set up to handle rush hour expresses to Kennett Square, Wawa, or Media (depending on the length of the line) that the line would require to snatch drivers off the road. It could be argued that the R5 Thorndale express trains have it best, with a low-congestion 4 track line and all. Perhaps running Kennett Square service similar to the West Trenton service would be the best idea after all.

Well, we'll see what happens. My info suggests that they're serious about
doing something more than just studying it, but with SEPTA you never
know. I'll believe it when I see them out actually repairing the track.

The biggest problem for the West Chester line, at least for those West Chester residents who didn't, or don't have automobiles to get them to the R-5 was always the former Red Arrow service on WC Pike ( now Route 104) The bus ( originally a trolley) managed to run through most of "uptown" West Chester while the train terminated for most of its life at Market Street just east of Matlack Street-- which was several blocks from the Gay & High Street location which is the "center" of the West Chester commercial area( and was the terminus for the trolley--- the replacement bus was extended to the old Short Line Terminal on West Market Street).

( When I was a student at the then West Chester State College in the 1960's, I knew many fellow students who weren't even aware that there WAS a train into Philly, though you could hear the MP-54 whistles sounding as the trains crossed Nield Street from the WCSC campus---- but most knew about, or soon learned about, the bus)

The WC Pike service was always more frequent, and though it required a change to the MFSE at 69th Street ( for those going into Philly itself) and was, and is, subject to the increasing traffic on WC Pike, it always carried many more passengers than the train did.

Connections at Media between the 101 and the R 3 could be better, but I doubt that you can improve any on the Clifton-Aldan connection with the 102, as the LRV's pass directly under the railroad at that location.

And from what I hear, the 104 is terribly(sp?) unreliable. I would guess rail ridership would be much better.