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Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1545586  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Dunville, before you "were", Amtrak essentially had "turnkey purchase of service agreements" with the roads, which simply meant "railroad everything". It was during '72 when they selected the 1200 cars that they were going to acquire from the roads (paid for largely by credits against the buy in fees). No question whatever, stainless structured cars were preferred.
 #1545616  by R Paul Carey
 
These are my thoughts as to the three questions:

1. The "General Idea" was to acquire "the best" of what was available, in 1971. Available equipment was inspected nationwide, with each car's inspection documented by a written report and an orange sticker was applied to the inside of the switch locker door. The inspectors were well qualified.

At the time, the initial fleet was thought to be sufficient - until the question of Amtrak's longer term survival could be settled. Doubts prevailed - even with respect to the NEC - until two events answered the question:

First: Amtrak, as a test, drastically reduced the Boston-NYP fare to $9.90, marginally undercutting the bus competition. The passenger response was instant and significant.

Second: The Oil Embargoes of the early 1970s forced crush loads, with many trains filled with standees prior to departure from initial terminals.

These two developments caused the reassessment of hundreds of cars "passed over", in 1971.

2. The stainless steel cars were superior and recognized from the beginning - and through the HEP Program - as "preferred". The sheathed Corten steel cars simply experienced a long, slow death "enmasse", in spite of a few "interventions", leaving the stainless survivors. In effect, the cars "decided" this. In 1972, against a backdrop of an insufficient fleet, a sufficient number of refurbished cars were in service to equip 5 designated trains - "by decree" - to operate ONLY with these refurbished cars. In due course and heroic efforts notwithstanding, the Oil Embargo forced the use of every available car to handle the loads on these and other trains. A certain P-70 Penn Central coach, borrowed from the MBTA commuter pool and promised for next-day return from DC, instead was dispatched in service all the way to LAUPT.
Such was the insufficiency of the Amtrak fleet in the day, when "adaptation" trumped "edict".

3. As a rule, cars owned by the Western roads had been well-maintained, though mid-life overhauls were more of an exception, rather than the rule. Many roads stored their equipment in lieu of overhaul. One surprising discovery was the SP cars were in remarkably good mechanical condition, though "threadbare" with respect to upholstery, etc.
In the east, SCL had a well-maintained fleet, and had been contracting overhauls at Hamburg Industries.

The "Rainbow Fleet" was born of necessity to solve the urgent needs in the east, and particularly in PC territory, including the NEC, which was infused with equipment from SCL , RF&P and others. The eastern LD trains were filled out with equipment from UP and SP, in particular.

The ATSF equipment was in fine shape, but equipped with steam-ejector AC, for which a wise decision was made to leave such cars in service on the "home" road.
 #1546129  by gokeefe
 
Worth noting that the "HEP Program" likely refers to what Amtrak formally called the "Heritage" fleet specifically cars from the legacy carriers that went through HEP conversion ... And possibly other minor upgrades.

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 #1546133  by GWoodle
 
Wonder where Amtrak got their cars? When they began in 1971, they purchased 1190 cars, including the domes (there were later purchases as well). Listed below are the railroads that furnished the original equipment.

AT&SF 441

B&O 6

CB&Q (via BN) 101

C&O 11

GN (via BN) 41

L&N 25

NP (via BN) 53

N&W 16

RF&P 19

SCL 276

SP 80

SP&S (via BN) 1

UP 120
 #1546135  by TomNelligan
 
It should be noted that in addition to the above, Amtrak leased about 200 assorted cars from Penn Central at startup for use on high density Northeastern routes. Most of these would eventually be purchased, but that didn't come until a year or so later.
 #1546178  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Or MILW for that matter.

No wonder with both; IC didn't know what stainless steel was, and further much of the IC's lightweight fleet were heavyweights that had been rebuild enough that they resembled their lighter cousins.

Some of these ostensible "lightweights" even had ice- activated AC.

The MILW much the same; their AC was propane fired engines made, and named, for neighboring Waukesha.

Defer to Mr. Carey for further comment.

But three MILW Super Domes did make their way on to the Amtrak roster by way of Princess Cruises, then Tours. Circa 1992, they were the "First Class" Diners assigned to the Auto Train.
 #1546180  by Tadman
 
IC and NP shared some domes, and they were shuffled every season change between a winter duty of carrying folks down south and a summer duty of carrying folks up north. They were repainted twice a year, as well. Those were actually Budd stainless just 100% painted. Who really owned them?

Also the assessment of IC is spot on regarding those heavy-lightweights, but their true lightweights were pretty well maintained until the end.
 #1546189  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Dunville, the Domes that were assigned by The Pullman Company to both the "City of Miami" and the "South Wind" were owned by the Northern Pacific. They were a Chicago-Portland line during the Summer and this Chicago-Miami line during the Winter.

The IC required the Domes assigned to the "City" to be in their livery. The roads opersting the "South Wind" were less concerned with the "spit and polish".

But I continue to note, why any road spent $$ for sightseeing cars to serve Florida escapes me. For "if you've seen one Pine Tree, you've seen 'em all".
 #1546218  by west point
 
The $9.50 Bos - NYP fare also undercut the airlines. At first it did not undercut Eastern Air lines shuttle on the hour and guaranteed seats even with extra sections. It really hurt American Airlines that was trying to compete with EAL by running scheduled service on the half hour. What did not help AA was the BAC-111 aircraft that were very uncomfortable. The 111s had a terrible continuous yaw that quickly turned off passengers.
 #1546249  by Tadman
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:14 pm But I continue to note, why any road spent $$ for sightseeing cars to serve Florida escapes me. For "if you've seen one Pine Tree, you've seen 'em all".
My theory is that the SCL and IC domes to florida had far more to do with what they told you was visible that what was actually visible. See this brochure where half the visible palm trees were actually painted on the bulkhead and not real.

Image

ACL was just as guilty...
Image

With a view like this, I could just reach out and grab an orange for breakfast!
Image
 #1546276  by gokeefe
 
Agreed. And for what it's worth, who doesn't mind watching the little hamlets and villages slide by? It's all part of the experience of feeling "special". I'm not saying Amtrak "needs" to do this but if you're asking why some people like it ... well ... It's about a lot more than pine trees.

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 #1546316  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Agreed Mr. O'Keefe.

I took a "bumper post to bumper post" ride on The Floridian during November.'77. Amtrak was REALLY putting "best foot forward"; perfectly matched Budd (ex SP) equipment, two Domes, full Diner and Lounge. This was "Custer's Last Stand" for this loser before it was offered as a "sacrificial lamb" at the altar of the Carter Cuts.

Yes, it was nice sitting in the Dome looking out at rural Alabama and watching little kids wave.

Small town Americana; which 43 years later, has no place in moving people through dense populstion centers.
 #1546394  by John_Perkowski
 
Note that UP got a VERY good price for its domes from Auto-Train, as did the Santa Fe and their Big Domes. None of those rolled even a mile on Amtrak’s rails.
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