Heritage Equipment

No, not an addition to the general fleet, but rather an addition to the "Heritage" fleet.

I mean, I'd rather have a Heritage Penn Station and Heritage brand-new Acelas & cars.

It wouldn't be a Heritage Penn Station without heavyweight INDOMITABLE class Parlor-Buffet-Lounge cars on the Heritage Clockers.

Here it is. The Spirit of Pete Grosso

https://youtu.be/5SoWzIf4vx0

*Feels*

SouthernRailway wrote:I suspect that Amtrak is so dead-set on promoting its own heritage and identity that it would never do this, and freight railroads might not want to license their intellectual property to Amtrak, but:

Wouldn't it be neat if Amtrak had heritage locomotives like freight railroads do, painted in liveries of Amtrak's predecessors?

For example, the Lake Shore Limited could be led by a locomotive in NY Central paint, the Crescent could be led by a locomotive in Southern Railway paint; and an Acela Express could be in Penn Central livery?

I don't think it would ever happen, but it would be neat if it did.

Not the Penn Central livery. PRR. Or NH.

Just think how snazzy an Acela would look in Tuscan red with gold pinstripes? Or warm orange and hunter green with silver stripes a la the 1949 Merchant's Limited?

Of course, Amtrak is not a direct corporate successor to these railroads. Amtrak took over the railroad's passenger service, but not their corporate identity. Amtrak's heritage units reflect its own history, not some other corporation.

Doesn't the state of Connecticut own the rights to all the New Haven schemes, not just the McGinnis and variants they use now?

GirlOnTheTrain wrote:Doesn't the state of Connecticut own the rights to all the New Haven schemes, not just the McGinnis and variants they use now?

I don't think so. From what I've read the rights to the Herbert Matter "McGinnis" image are owned by the NHRHTA. As for the pre-1954 schemes-- the warm orange & hunter green on the RS's and PA's, the Brunswick green/gold on the DL109's, EP- and EF- 1-4s-- I don't know. They may well be in the public domain.

ConnDOT bought the rights of Premier underwriters years ago , I don't think the NHRHTA has enough cash to have made that purchase.

I don't know who has those rights, but it's not necessarily sold for a big amount of cash. Could be $10. A written contract requires consideration, and $10 is considered by courts to be valid consideration in exchange for property.

Tadman wrote:I don't know who has those rights, but it's not necessarily sold for a big amount of cash. Could be $10. A written contract requires consideration, and $10 is considered by courts to be valid consideration in exchange for property.

Exactly.

Take a step away from us railfans and think what, exactly, the brand image of the NYNH&H was worth in, say, 1975. A company that had spent ~15 of the past 40 years in bankruptcy, only to be folded into a company which in turn went bust in the largest corporate bankruptcy in American history. The trains were dirty, the former CEO was in prison for embezzlement, and it seemed like the whole industry might be nationalized. Probably not a heck of a lot of what finance-types term "Goodwill" associated with the brand.

I don't think you can copyright the train colors & logo, only trademark them. If you don't maintain your trademark it could be challenged/expire. Hence why railroads maintain a few cars with old liveries. Unless it is considered art, then I guess you could copyright. Does the STB preempt the USPTO, lol?

Technically you can do both.
A copyright is when you've fixed an expressed idea into a fixed medium.

So the words you typed here for example, are automatically protected by copyright.

So I can 't collect the "best of Railroad.Net" and publish a book on my own.

So, a paint scheme, much like a building is protected by copyright.
HOWEVER, as you note, copyrights expire, trademarks don't.

Trademarks protect an expression in a particular field. The classic (though complicated) is Apple Records had a copyright on Apple when it came to music, and Apple Computers when it came to computers. But I could still have created "Apple Pie Company" that used an Apple as a logo.

So in the case of a paint scheme, I'm not sure the relevant case law.

My best guess is, if it's protected by copyright, you couldn't say, paint your car in a McGinnis paint scheme because you'd violate their copyright AND trademark.

Once it's out of copyright protection then they MIGHT be able to get you on trademark infringement, but among other things, they have to prove that a reasonable person might be confused into thinking you had their endorsement or something. Which, they'd probably win.

Briefly looking, my guess is the McGinnis paint scheme was probably protected under the 1908 Copyright act, which basically gave 56 years from the time it was filed. So you can use that.
For trademark I'd have to look, but my guess is it's still protected. So anyone, especially a RAILROAD trying to use it, had better make sure they have a legal right to do so.

And given that I've seen Metro-North locos (E7s I believe) painted in it recently, I'm guessing MNRR somehow owns or has obtained the rights.

Ridgefielder wrote:

Tadman wrote:I don't know who has those rights, but it's not necessarily sold for a big amount of cash. Could be $10. A written contract requires consideration, and $10 is considered by courts to be valid consideration in exchange for property.

Exactly.

Take a step away from us railfans and think what, exactly, the brand image of the NYNH&H was worth in, say, 1975. A company that had spent ~15 of the past 40 years in bankruptcy, only to be folded into a company which in turn went bust in the largest corporate bankruptcy in American history. The trains were dirty, the former CEO was in prison for embezzlement, and it seemed like the whole industry might be nationalized. Probably not a heck of a lot of what finance-types term "Goodwill" associated with the brand.

Agreed. This is why my parents, especially father, never take the train. They grew up at points between Detroit and Chicago in the 50's, 60's, and early 70's. To them, passenger trains were broke-ass Penn Central runs or the South Shore, which is commonly known to be completely neglected from the Chessie buyout in '67 until NICTD took over. There is no goodwill in any of those brands. Those brands stood for absolutely awful service, completely busted trains, and crumbling stations. That brand equity is equal to that of the Romanian Communist Party or British Leyland. No thanks.

So in another topic, we're discussing the merits of stainless. In yet another, we are discussing bad decisions made in 1971 regarding rolling stock orders. I think it merits a new topic to discuss:

1. What was the general idea with regard to the rainbow fleet and heritage fleet?
2. Was there any effort to keep a certain sub-fleet (IE stainless or certain better kept) alive longer?
3. Other than PC, what fleets were in the worst shape? Best?

As someone born in 1981, I wasn't really cognizant of the decisions made and it seems like the Rainbows and Heritage cars were basically "run what rolls" and "run what isn't rotting".

Also a thought I had: Perhaps it would've been smarter to enact Amtrak, but pay the freight roads run an Amtrak-like network for a few years until new rolling stock and power is made. By 1974 or 1975, new/rebuilt equipment is ready and the Amtrak branding is rolled out. Now the bad vibes from junk equipment are with the old carriers, some about to disappear anyway.