New Atlanta Station

[gokeefe]

Yes it’s small, and yes it needs car storage elsewhere, but it provides just a little room to grow Amtrak ops.

Count me in as a buyer on that one. Its huge step forward from what they have right now and doesn't loose any of the advantages of the location near I-75. I think you could get away with even more stub tracks if you take away the parking area in purple and build a garage on the rectangular parking lot to the south.

There is a lot of unused parking at that mall.

Andrew,

This is an unusual plot that might allow you to create stub tracks at acute angles to each other with through tracks on site as well. I would be interested to see what it would look like if you setup stubs coming from both north and south. In essence a three sided triangular station would be right in the middle with access coming from the southeast by the intersection of Fowler Street NW and 20th Street.

Platforms would run on all three sides of the triangle. Through tracks at the far end, stub tracks for origin/destination south along the 20th Street side and stub tracks for origin/destination north along I-75.

[mtuandrew]

Count me in as a buyer on that one. Its huge step forward from what they have right now and doesn't loose any of the advantages of the location near I-75. I think you could get away with even more stub tracks if you take away the parking area in purple and build a garage on the rectangular parking lot to the south.

There is a lot of unused parking at that mall.

I’m not sure I’m seeing a rectangular parking lot. Are you referring to the Regal movie theater? It looks like it has parking under, or near enough. Same with the Target next door.

Andrew,

This is an unusual plot that might allow you to create stub tracks at acute angles to each other with through tracks on site as well. I would be interested to see what it would look like if you setup stubs coming from both north and south. In essence a three sided triangular station would be right in the middle with access coming from the southeast by the intersection of Fowler Street NW and 20th Street.

Platforms would run on all three sides of the triangle. Through tracks at the far end, stub tracks for origin/destination south along the 20th Street side and stub tracks for origin/destination north along I-75.

I think I see what you’re saying, and while I admire your space usage, I’m not sure it’s the right station for this area. I’d like to keep construction costs down - they would already be high enough with a new bridge between the NS Main and Atlantic Steel Spur bridges - and it sounds like your plan might require demolition of the Atlantic Steel bridge. It also doesn’t seem like you include a wye in your concept? (Not that my design has much of a wye.)

Also, and most importantly, the bigger this station on this limited plot of land, the less likely Atlanta is to build a central station appropriately sized for the future. This spot looks like you could potentially have up to four through passenger tracks (aside from the two freight tracks) with 600-700’ platforms and a pair each of southbound and northbound stub tracks with 400’ platforms - that’s more than enough for now, but entirely too few for the future.

I’ll draw up a plan later though.

[gokeefe]

I’m not sure I’m seeing a rectangular parking lot.

Parking lot here ... There are a bunch of temporary facilities on it.

Streetview of the same area.

[mtuandrew]

Submitted without comment yet

[mtuandrew]

Quick thoughts:

-needs overhead development, since people aren’t just going to flock to a train station shoved behind a movie theater at the far corner of a mall. Retail at least, maybe a hotel, definitely green space.
-I’m having trouble fitting north-south-aligned northbound stubs without demolishing & rebuilding the Atlantic Steel bridge. Again, it’s doable, but the less demolition the better when we’re talking about a station that ideally won’t be the main city station for too too long.
-I was able to fit three full through tracks and a fourth, shorter through track on the site, plus two southbound stub tracks and the wye/northbound stub. There are other configurations which could serve, both parallel and transverse, but someone else can work on those!

[gokeefe]

You could do a lot of great things building in the air space over those tracks. That is a fantastic option and allows for a great deal of future development. I would assume that passengers would access the tracks via escalators and elevators coming down via towers or concourse over the platforms.

[mtuandrew]

You could do a lot of great things building in the air space over those tracks. That is a fantastic option and allows for a great deal of future development. I would assume that passengers would access the tracks via escalators and elevators coming down via towers or concourse over the platforms.

Yep, elevators/escalators are the idea, since the tracks necessarily need to be at grade. Combined concourse & headhouse about 20 feet above the top of rail (leaving some room for electrification future-proofing with bilevels), locomotive and car service on one of the side spur tracks. It would be nice to have alternating high and low platforms - or at least high and mini-high. Never know when Amtrak will suddenly assign Superliners to a theoretical WAS-ATL Regional after all.

And I really like the idea of a hotel above, and possibly a bus loop below ground. More refinement to come.

EDIT: moved these posts over to the Atlanta Station thread.

[west point]

mtuandrew: like your diagram. Car storage might be done at the old wye 1 mile N of the station at the location where the belt line used to split off ? Understand that NS now has a small unloading facility there

[Jeff Smith]

I worked for three years just up the street, across from the Kroger and Wolfgang Puck Express. LITERALLY ANYTHING would be an improvement. Zero parking, low capacity. This was a Southern RW suburban station. The location could provide MARTA bus connections, but little else. Ironically, MARTA runs adjacent to Amtrak about 1/4 mile up, alongside I-85, crossing GA 400 between I-85 and Buckhead.

There is, however, a short tunnel and wall built off the N/S line of MARTA above Arts Center meant for an extension if Cobb ever bought in to MARTA. So there could be a spur. That source is in General Passenger (Atlanta topics, MARTA) from of all places NYCSUBWAY.ORG

I doubt MARTA would expand much farther to the northwest; that's tortuous terrain, to anyone who's driven the 75 corridor, the grades are absolutely atrocious. You'd need major tunneling. It's the same issue with any MARTA extension beyond North Springs along 400. It's like a frikken' roller coaster!

Then there's Howell JCT... not being all that familiar with its intricacies, they need a flyover. As for the gulch, unless Amtrak decides to start running south of Atlanta (see the Tennessee proposals they recently offered up, specifically, the one from Chattanooga), the Gulch doesn't add anything for them. Again, you have to deal with Howell I believe, and you'd have to turn the train or reverse.

I'll add some photos from some of the earlier links which are public source:

[Tadman]

I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular response, but why does the main station have to be downtown? Atlanta is a very spread out city, much like Dallas or LA. Perhaps the answer is not to find space for a transportation palace downtown but rather a competent station in the suburbs or outlying areas of the city that has nearby subway access and a parking lot. Then keep the current station as a stopoff.

Think of it this way. In ten years, let's say the post-Covid predictions here come true. Amtrak ridership quadruples and Atlanta finds itself a small hub. 2-3x/day to NYC, 5x to Charlotte, 2x to Augusta, 2x to Birmingham/NOLA, 2x to Chattanooga. The list goes on and we don't have to be precise. Why are these people looking to visit ATL?

1. Conferences and GA Tech - downtown
2. Business and financial - all over (Siemens is way up north for example with hundreds of people, so is UPS)
3. Big airport to fly to Paris, LA, Tokyo - south side
4. Big airport arrivals for The Masters in Augusta or UGA in Athens, myabe GSM nat'l park or Savannah
5. Braves and Falcons - north side, far north side

This is just a sampling but it's clear ATL is not Chicago, where even O'Hare is close to downtown, as are Sox/Cubs/Bulls, Boeing, UAL, ArcelorMittal, etc... I am in ATL 2-3/year and spend some time downtown in April for a conference. It's a very sleepy downtown.

[Jeff Smith]

Your point on Atlanta being decentralized is entirely correct, although I wouldn't say Hartsfield-Jackson is that far downtown. It just seems that way with Atlanta traffic lol. Siemens is way up 400, in Cherokee, not far from where I used to live. There's zero rail in the 400 corridor above North Springs MARTA.

Getting from Buckhead/Midtown can be problematic. The current station is on the "border" of Buckhead and Midtown. An easy connection to MARTA Rail is definitely needed; that spur would serve it well, as well as Atlantic Station.

The only reason I could see for a Gulch station, again, is if they institute a line (LD or Commuter line down that way. THAT is sorely needed. By coincidence I was at Macon Terminal Station yesterday; if they do run a line, I would hope it would eventually extend past Lovejoy to Macon, and beyond, to Savannah via Amtrak. I'm in Warner Robins now; while I'd love a connection, there's really not a lot in between Macon and Valdosta/Florida Line, it's basically a trucking route with some industry.

[Pensyfan19]

How about restoring the original Atlanta Union/Central Station? (Present day Five Points Station) Right in the cebter of downtown, easy access to MARTA, and plenty of room under major buildings to store trains and platforms.

[Greg Moore]

Haven ridden the Crescent almost every year for over 15 years now (I think that's about right), almost anything would be an improvement.
I think a 4 track station is MORE than enough. Consider a place like Albany NY which for years eeked by with 3 tracks until the 4th finally got in. It has I think 26 trains a day (13 in each direction). I can't see Atlanta getting to 1/2 that any time in the near future.
My biggest wish: either Hertz rental car at the station, OR, a MARTA stop right there. The current1/2+ mile walk to the Arts Center is NOT for the timid.
But for a city built because of the railroads, Atlanta needs to step up its game!

[Jeff Smith]

Pensy: That's the existing "Gulch", and proposed location for the deceased MMPT proposal, basically, what we've been talking about vs. the existing NS E/W line just above midtown. Only operationally viable for a restored North/South service Chattanooga - Atlanta - Macon and points south or east from there. If it's commuter, Amtrak doesn't need it. For the Crescent, it's operationally difficult as well unless they go way back to the historic Crescent, not the Amtrak version (i.e. a routing down to the coast at Mobile vs. the one via Anniston and Birmingham).

Greg: I agree, they don't need more than 4 tracks; even 2 or 3 would do it. They do need a place to terminate/turn a second frequency on the Crescent. In the recent past, for trains annulled at Atlanta, Amtrak would turn it by backing to the wye just north of there (underneath 85), then back it into the Atlantic Steel siding for the return trip.

[mtuandrew]

Let me see if I can fit four through tracks, a wye, a layover track and a service track (fueling, running repairs, a relief locomotive) into that plot behind Atlantic Station and over I-75. I think it’s doable, as long as most of the land is still available for reuse. (I’m assuming Narjoe Lumber is biding its time for the highest offer.)