New Atlanta Station

Yeah, as I said above, I think a MARTA connection is absolutely mandatory. That said, at the location suggested above, perhaps a short shuttle line to the existing Arts station might work?

If the Crescent were rerouted via the A&WP to Montgomery and Mobile, I can't see a reason not to have it stop at an airport station, but only in addition to a main station. But aside from that, there's no reason to go out of the way to get the Crescent to serve the airport.

Again, at one or two frequencies a day, is it worth the extra cost for an airport station? They've got MARTA, and could add commuter rail. It works in Europe because of the frequencies, as noted above. Even commuter rail as envisioned in ATL is not going to have those frequencies.

I could absolutely see a second station, though, in ATL. Extend MARTA to Atlantic Steel, er, station through the tunnel wall/cutout/portal/whatever they built around Arts Station, and you've got a connection there. The "Gulch" is of course optimal, given the A&WP routing the Southern Crescent historically had at one point, but you need another frequency that maintains the current Birmingham routing. Or at least a section. I'd keep Peachtree (or as the great diagrams show, slide it over to Atlantic), and then turn it at the gulch.

Agreed. With one train a day in each direction, or even two, there's very little need to connect to the airport.
My biggest need when I've taken the Crescent has been a rental car, and honestly, generally it's been cheaper, easier, and faster to get a cab or the bus or even take MARTA to Buckhead and get it there.

Train/plane connections work well at places like BWI where there are dozens of trains a day, especially such that when I was flying in and out of BWI on a regular basis, I didn't care about the train connection: I simply knew there would be a train "soon enough".

Also, Hartsfield is far south enough of the city that putting a station there at the expense of the city would probably detract from ridership. One of the values of inter-city rail is that it's between the heart of cities, not the edges.

Again, BWI works because it's pretty much along the path from Baltimore to DC. A station at Hartsfield wouldn't really help in the same way.

orulz: I’m inclined to agree about transit availability. Doraville could work as an analogous station to Buffalo-Depew (as opposed to Atlantic Station or Peachtree, analogous to MSP-Midway), but given all those options and a limited budget, I think I’d prefer Lenox (analogous to Boston-Back Bay, I suppose) or a slimmer station in the Peachtree neighborhood. Doraville is a little too far for me to want to ride, though Amtrak should consider making it a station on its own merits ASAP.

Buckhead/Lenox is a definite IMO. Then your layout for Atlantic Steel, er, Station, with a new MARTA connection, or circulator bus. The rails for Lenox/Buckead are basically right there by the JW (very nice); the Ritz Carlton is not far (a place I met several Knicks once; never felt so short in my life and I'm 6'0"; they laughed so hard!).

Greg, exactly. I do wish EWR had a better connection to the NEC; the monorail is a joke. Not sure how decent it is at BWI Marshall. And I could see a rail connection for JFK, either LIRR, or if Amtrak ever runs out to Jamaica! But that's a topic for my new NYC Metropolitan forum!

I've only done the EWR connection once (and ironically not to catch a plane).
I didn't find it TOO horrible, but it could have been better.

BWI is a shuttle bus and is I think further from the airport itself. But it's doable and quite popular.

To serve the Gulch from any direction, put a connection in where NS passes near Marta's Armour Yard. There is still the remains of a siding and it would require a bridge over a waterway, but it would create a new beltline although longer than the old Beltline. The main problem is it would bypass Peachtree/Atlantic station.
Here: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8162281 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Greg Moore wrote:Yeah, as I said above, I think a MARTA connection is absolutely mandatory. That said, at the location suggested above, perhaps a short shuttle line to the existing Arts station might work?

I don't agree with this simply because the situation for Amtrak @ ATL is so bad right now.

It seems crazy to even *think* that a subway connection could be skipped but right now they just need a functional station that can be built in a reasonable period of time.

Congratulations to everyone for rediscovering how bad stations get built.

A couple of previous Amtrak examples where connectivity has been sacrificed to expedience: Cleveland Lakefront, Buffalo Depew, Richmond Staples Mill, and Cincinnati River Road.

On a positive note these stations have all succeeded (to a greater or lesser extent) in providing sufficient access to service to eventually justify replacement or expansion.

A new "Atlantic Station" or perhaps "Atlantic Terminal" would help grow Amtrak service to a point where "bigger dreams" can take over. Of the four examples mentioned above only Cleveland has yet to be replaced or supplemented by an improved or rehabilitated facility.

On a completely different note this is my first post using Tapatalk and I am very grateful to Greg and the Railroad.net team (yes Jeff "Jefe", this means you too!) for all your hard work.

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When the original MARTA line in downtown was built a northbound tunnel was built under the southbound tunnel near 17th street. It has never been built further but a future rail route would go right in the vicinity of the Amtrak station or these proposals. So a MARTA connection could be built. The line was supposed to continue into the NW part of Atlanta but so far has never been built. The trackwork is not the best but a shuttle could run from the arts station to that future route.

In my opinion that makes the "Atlantic Terminal" site even more viable ... Even the mere shadow of a "future MARTA option" is "good enough".

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I’m actually thinking my Atlantic Station proposals are too much. Four through tracks of 10 car lengths each (with land set aside for up to four stubs), two storage/service, and a wye or balloon would be enough to start functional Regional service. It wouldn’t be overkill for commuter service if Amtrak vacates either.

Atlantic Station is just a thought exercise too. Good location, redevelopment possible, safe and well-off neighborhood, and a short bus ride from both Arts Center MARTA and Georgia Tech. There’s a lot to be said for Armour and Lenox though, especially Armour as part of a potential loop. Either one would be a great transfer station if MARTA ever builds out a commuter rail system.

Don't get hung up on the MARTA stub tunnel, it will never happen. The cost is simply too much, and the area it would run along is too built up and too wealthy (NIMBYs) to allow a MARTA line to run along I-75. Atlantic Station is a private development and the stub tunnel would basically only serve it as there's virtually 0 chance of it getting extended. Any sort of MARTA extension toward Cobb County would likely extend off the Green Line from Bankhead and run along the Marietta Blvd Corridor.

The problem with Armour for a station is there's nothing there. Which yes, makes it attractive, but it's doubtful a MARTA infill station will go in there, even with the beltline, there's going to be a planned much bigger connectivity just north of there at Lindbergh. I know it keeps getting talked about, but I don't see it happening. One of the biggest drawbacks to it is it would dramatically slow down the trip between Arts Center and Lindbergh which is a huge selling point for that segment of MARTA right now.

Lenox is an idea, but I'm pretty certain I read that NS is practically demanding that any new Atlanta Amtrak station have the platforms off the mainline track so NS could still run trains while the Crescent is in the station. Currently, Amtrak can only use the "northbound" track (both are 261, but I'm referring to normal right-handed running) and then must cross over to the southbound track at Birmont to get across Howell. The other track also has to be shutdown since people and baggage using the elevators have to cross that track at-grade to get to the platform. This pretty much means that nothing moves between Inman and Chamblee the entire time, and anything south of Atlanta could get held up if it's going up the Greenville District.

I mentioned the northbound tunnel provision a few times upstream, er, upthread. To me, it's fine if it ends at Atlantic as I also noted previously the terrain along I-75 heading up to Cobb is atrocious, and would indeed be prohibitively expensive. It would have been doable when MARTA was first built for the 96 Olympics. Today? Nope nope nope nope nope! In any case, there's a blurb on NYCSUBWAY.ORG (of all places) on the provision for a NW line. Andrew, I do like your idea for an Atlantic Station, and such would be the most expedient option for any expanded Amtrak or Commuter Rail, provided the MARTA connection is in place.

I found the NYCSubway.org article discussing the extension here: https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/MARTA_Provisions

Northwest Line
The last of the unbuilt lines is the Northwest line. The provision for this line is between Arts Center and Lindbergh Center. It lies in the subway tunnel north of Arts Center. This entire provision is underground with no clue above ground that is there. The tunnels diverge to the outsides of the mainline tunnels and slope upwards before coming to an end, short of where the tunnel portal would be built. The trackways in the two tunnels are similar to the trackways at the Tucker-North DeKalb provision.

Best View from train: On a northbound train, facing through the front window, you can clearly see the turnout on the right side of the train. The halogen tunnel lights are on the right side of the tunnel, so they veer off along with the tunnel, giving an excellent view of the trackway. On the southbound train, facing through the back window of the train, you the see the turnout on your left. The tunnel looks the same as the northbound one.