If you could restore a defunct Amtrak route

[bdawe]

Fort Wayne - Lima - Columbus could be done by putting a switch in at Dunkirk, avoiding all of the freight mains, no?

[mtuandrew]

Here’s a bold one: the Lake Country Limited. Except route it via the UP-NW District if possible, via a new junction between MD-N and UP-NW at Irving Park Blvd in Chicago.

And also extend it to Madison.

Who will pay for that junction?

Metra for fleet movements to and from Western Avenue from UP-NW, FRA Small Starts, Amtrak and Wisconsin for the Janesville/Madison service, possibly a few bucks from UP and CP to facilitate freight locals?

Hey, I’m trying here.

[gokeefe]

Fort Wayne - Lima - Columbus could be done by putting a switch in at Dunkirk, avoiding all of the freight mains, no?

Agreed. Unfortunately the route is not direct at all.

[bdawe]

Is it? It's by my reckoning 302 miles of extremely tangent track between Chicago & Columbus by that route. The Great Circle line is 277 miles. By the same measure, New York Washington is modestly more circuitous

[Jeff Smith]

Let's not forget Akron, and the end of the Three Rivers (Broadway Limited) routing. That would be a route well-restored.

[Pensyfan19]

Let's not forget Akron, and the end of the Three Rivers (Broadway Limited) routing. That would be a route well-restored.

Agreed. That also includes Crestline, OH and Fort Wayne, IN. There could also be a possibility of an express service for LDs, in which the train inly stops at major cities along the route, and could travel at faster speeds. Think of it like an acela/express service for LDs.
In the case of the Broadway Limited, it could be the following:
NYP
Philadelphia 30th Street Station/North Philadelphia/Trenton (one of the three. Passengers going to Philly 30th street can transfer at North Philly or Trenton)
Harrisburg
Altoona
Pittsburgh
Crestline, OH
Fort Wayne, IN
Chicago Union Station

Another example could be with the Lake Shore Limited:
NYP or Grand Central
Croton Harmon/Albany
Buffalo Central Terminal
Cleveland
Toledo
Gary, IN
Chicago Union Station

[gokeefe]

Small town America makes disproportionate contributions in passenger counts on Long Distance services. These places are exactly the locations you want to serve. Buses often don't go there and airports with any reasonable amount of service and fares are often very far away.

[Pensyfan19]

Small town America makes disproportionate contributions in passenger counts on Long Distance services. These places are exactly the locations you want to serve. Buses often don't go there and airports with any reasonable amount of service and fares are often very far away.

I absolutely agree with you. This is why I support keeping LD services. I also propose having a local, stopping at existing if not more local towns, and an express service which only stops at major cities.

[David Benton]

Small towns have more influence than their population suggests too. most have a Mayor, for e.g, so the population per Mayor is low. But those mayors can be vocal .

[FatNoah]

Small town America makes disproportionate contributions in passenger counts on Long Distance services. These places are exactly the locations you want to serve. Buses often don't go there and airports with any reasonable amount of service and fares are often very far away.

I've ridden most of the LDs at least once and have observed varying levels of this. The CA Zephyr seemed to skew heavily towards leisure riders, while the Texas Eagle basically served as the only way to travel across states that are roughly 8000 miles wide.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Messrs. O'Keefe, Pennsy, Benton, and Noah, I feel obliged to make my oft repeated point regarding this "small town" argument.

Much as it would be nice to have a Federal Government that could provide for every last want and ostensible need for everyone, you simply can't.

If the "can't drives, won't flies" choose to live in a rural area, that is their choice. But they must recognize that IF and when they have needs for intercity transportation, it need not be provided by a publicly funded, and indirectly by the private sector, passenger train. There is not a single community served by Amtrak that is inaccessible by public highway. If there was some kind of initiative to provide public transportation to the "can't drive won't fly" community, such could be accomplished much more economically and flexibly by a system of publicly funded busses.

Further, any such rail initiative is simply going to invite more passenger trains interfering with investor owned railroad operations. The day could easily come when someone in Grand Island will say to the right legislative "ear" "they've got a train in Hastings, we want ours". That is what I believe is quite dangerous about these grass roots initiatives for an expanded LD system.

Volks, "I was there" on A-Day; albeit entry level, with a Class I. The "washroom walls" said the LD's were to have been gone starting within five years, or '76. It looked for a while that the '79 Carter Cuts was getting the ball rolling, but then, politics got in the way, which I guess was "happy dance" for the advocacy community. When the walls learned of the Superliner order during '75, I'm sure those same walls heard, Carter Cuts notwithstanding, "we're going to be stuck with those trains for the next thirty years".

[Pensyfan19]

The federal government doesn't necessarily have to provide for every small town in the U.S. Other railroads can focus on certain regions of the nation, and run increased passenger service in those areas, so this way one corporation doesn't have to worry about the entire country and the smaller railroads can focus on specific segments of the nation. Once this is done, each railroad can run an increased amount of trains in that region, local express and overnight, and provide more rail opportunities for the communities along each region.
For example; let's say Amtrak was broken up into a few different railroads: Amtrak Northeast, Amtrak South, Amtrak Midwest, Amtrak West Coast, etc., or doesn't even have to be under the Amtrak name. An example of this would be breaking up Amtrak into Great Northern for the GN and NP regions, WestRail for the Santa Fe and Rio Grande regions, Southrail for the Southern regions, and so on. Each one of these railroads would only have to focus on their region, rather than the rest of the country, so that in this case Southrail can focus and develop potential corridors in the South and provide numerous local and intercity trains in that region only, and not have to worry about how to improve Great Northern's region, and vice versa. Meanwhile, WestRail would focus on providing new local service to small communities along the line, intercity routes between major cities, the potential for increased express LD services across the entire route, as well as overnight services.

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I am always going to favor bigger cities over small towns when it comes to transportation. It isn't necessarily a perfect correlation but a larger population gives you a larger population base to but butts in the seats. Why are there more established public commuter systems in larger metropolitan areas in general than small towns? There's no train service in Las Vegas, Nashville, Louisville, and Columbus. Why are we wasting money and resources so Thurmond, West Virginia (population 5) has train service?

[Pensyfan19]

I am always going to favor bigger cities over small towns when it comes to transportation. It isn't necessarily a perfect correlation but a larger population gives you a larger population base to but butts in the seats. Why are there more established public commuter systems in larger metropolitan areas in general than small towns? There's no train service in Las Vegas, Nashville, Louisville, and Columbus. Why are we wasting money and resources so Thurmond, West Virginia (population 5) has train service?

Commuter rail and intercity service is just as important as LD services. Commuter rail can focus on distances under 130 miles from large cities, intercity trains can go from one major city to another, with some stops in between, and LD trains can go from one major city to another one further away (800 miles +) with other major cities and small towns in between. All forms of rail transportation coexist with each other, and there should be more of each of these services where they are lacking, such as the cities you mentioned.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Messrs. Fans---

Breaking up and privatizing Amtrak was a Bush43 initiative that never got too far, yet it seems that is what Pennsy has in mind.

Thst is known as "Balkanizing", or what happened to the Austro-Hungrian Empire at Versailles after WWI. Had it remained, save Austria which somehow "escaped" during '55, maybe it all could have become part of the Western bloc.

Pennsy, you simply want more passenger trains interfering with the investor owned railroad operations. While I hsve reservations about the "Precidion Railroading" model being adopted X the industry, it does not bode well for the efficient movement of either traffic class.

Philly, aside from your ostensible objective of restoring everything in a 1946 PRR Form 1 (System Timetable), you make good point regarding the likes of Thurmond WV. It's accessible by highway, and I'll bet an airport (or retirement home) van could meet the ostensible needs of the "can't drives, won't flies".

Incidentally, and as a disclaimer: of sorts, I'm almost 79yo, and this CV pandemic simply accentuates "I'm running out of time". While my days of licensure to operate a motor vehicle may be over as soon as next year (80yo's must take driving test every two years), and I could well end up grounded at that time. But that does not mean I will suddenly become an Amtrak passenger again. I'll just use BNSF/METRA to get into town for the Symphony, or Lunch with friends, taxicabs (maybe Uber, which I've never once used) for groceries, and livery cars to ORD. In short, "I'm done" with Amtrak, absent being in Florida with a POV and.occasion to go to Wash area, or in the Corridor and have occasion to go to another place within such.