Troubles on the Lake State RR

Well, I got into talking with my cousin from The Oscoda Area of Michigan. She was telling me that Lake State has had atleast 4 accidents through or near the Tawas City Area in the past 3 weeks! This includes spilling potlatch all over US 23 twice, a Full train go into the AuSable river and taking out a 1912 Trestle, and a 12 boxcar derailment outside of a KOA Campground.

Now, I have seen the old Route ( EX-D&M) and it is EXTREMELY warped. Speed limit (posted) is 70, and there are no signals as far as I could see from any of the grade crossings.

Now, my question is this is just too random for coincediance. Lake State owns many ex-CN locomotives, and a few D&M Models, including the oldest Diesel in MI ex-D&M #975. (Pic Below)

http://www.railroadmichigan.com/dm975d.jpg

Now, why would the NTSB NOT shut this line down after SO many accidents in such short range of time?

James, you need to do some more learnin'. The track is not posted for 70 MPH. FRA track standards don't have a 70MPH class. If it was 70 that would mean it was Class 5 track which is good for 80, and the railroad chose to put a 70 on it. And Class 5 track would be so good it's very unlikely they would have 4 derailments in 3 weeks due to track.

Which is another thing - are all these incidents track related? How do you know? Could the cause of one or more have been a mechanical problem, or a motorist running into the train? Or even crew error?

The NTSB has no authority to shut a railroad down. The NTSB investigates serious accidents but does not enforce rules. Oversight of railroads is done by the Federal Railroad Administration, and **IF** there were 4 significant derailments in 3 weeks I'm sure they are looking into it.

You need to get specific details before posting. I don't mean what type of locomotives they have - what does that have to do with the rest of your post?

I spent some time growing up next to that line (in Harrisville) and I still check it out whenever I visit my relatives in the area. The track from what I remember is indeed in very poor shape. The old D&M used to be a fun railroad to watch with their old Alco power and the interesting roundhouse/yard at Tawas (now a Wal Mart I'm told).

Yep, she is a Wal-Mart. It looked like a CN MPH Marker. I swear. Anyway its good to watch. Mostly it hauls potlatch from Alpena Cement to I believe Port Huron. Night running is given, very few daylight trains.

As far as I know, they are not related. No Cars except for those on US 23, were involved.

But, I mean its a little serious for 4 accidents, in such a short time frame, and in a small town setting. The FRA maybe should suggest HEAVILY to the Lake State to repair the trackage. However, as far as I know I do not know of any Track replacement equipment that LS owns.

How much ya wanna bet, it was MP 70? 70 mph railroad looks flawless, with smooth roadbed, gentle curves, and no kinks or other "EXTREMELY" weird stuff to be seen. As stated, the NTSB has no powers, to make, or enforce laws, under the jurisdiction of the FRA. They are an investigative agency, with no ability to make, or enforce regulations. You have to do your homework, James. www.dogpile.com

Homework? I didn't know there was any... *LOL* But, shouldn't the FRA at least pressure LS to redo their rail line, not to mention add signals??

The FRA does not "pressure" them in the sense you speak of. They come in and look at the track and observe defects. Each defect can be written up as a "deficiency" which needs to be corrected, or a "violation" which is subject to a fine.

The railroad has two choices - it can repair the defect(s), or it can lower the class of track (and thus the allowed speed) to a lower category which allows the situation which was observed. If it does not meet Class I track, the track can be declared "excepted" which means less than Class I. On Excepted track the speed is 10 MPH, no passenger trains are allowed, and no more than 5 cars of hazmat can be in a train.

So yes, this does "pressure" the railroad into making repairs but these standards have already been in place so the railroad knows them. If the FRA chooses it can come back repeatedly to be sure defects are properly addressed so that does constitute pressure (especially for the roadmaster and track supervisors).

Also James note that "Class I" track is totally separate and unrelated to "Class I railroad".

That's what I thought. But, they cannot close the line after SO many write-ups?

Why do you seem so "overly-eager" to have a railroad line shut down, or embargoed? You need to chill on that stuff "engineer" Jimmy. People are working, making a paycheck there. Maybe they can crash at your house, when you get your wish, to shut down a line, and remove railroaders from their jobs? You don't have a clue, as to what's going on, behind the scenes, on that particular property, so chill-out with the "let's shut them down nonsense". Attitudes like yours will keep guys like you working at 7-11, instead of on the railroad. The job you eliminate might just be the one you were going to get. Get a clue...........or go to the TAMR thread.

No, I do not want them to close the line at all. It is a good line since she is ex-D&M material. What I was asking was if they could close a line if there were SO many write-ups. LS Does have good equipment, just the trackage really looks like it needs to be replaced. I almost compare it to the old CRI&P (Rock Island) trackage out of Chicago. Not to mention I have looked at a lot of pics of the line, and have never once seen a signal.

The FRA does have the power to issue "emergency orders", including shutting down a line. That is done only in the most severe cases.

Engineer James wrote:No, I do not want them to close the line at all. It is a good line since she is ex-D&M material. What I was asking was if they could close a line if there were SO many write-ups. LS Does have good equipment, just the trackage really looks like it needs to be replaced. I almost compare it to the old CRI&P (Rock Island) trackage out of Chicago. Not to mention I have looked at a lot of pics of the line, and have never once seen a signal.

ex D&M material?? Railroading's more about the people, to me, than what brand of locos they use.

And I'm interested in your recollections on the Rock Island, especially considering they went out of business in March 1980! Some of their junky locos found work elsewhere; I wonder how the former employees fared?

And what's the reference to signals or a lack thereof all about?

I'm finding that Engineer James knows less and less about what he or she is posting about as time goes on...

Dave Becker

ok, I cannot find the picture I am referancing. I will find it and post it as soon as possible.

Pablo> Yeah, I do not know a lot about the subject however, do know a lot about the line. Thats why I posted the question.

Well, James, I don't feel like researching all of your posts, and I'm not the only one to address it, but a tremendous amount of ignorance has sprung forth from your keyboard lately. Advocating the closing of a railroad is just one example. I don't know why their track is so bad, assuming it is, but relax. Take a pill. Even if it's all done in ignorance, it's the type of stuff that makes railroaders hate foamers.

Dave Becker