track pans east of Rochester

I wonder if there was a designated speed to hit the pans, as the tremendous hydraulic pressure of the water could, I would think, lift a tender up in the air if taken too fast for the weight and dispersal capability of the mechanism. It would have to be fairly precise- too slow would result in not enough pressure to drive the water into it's reservoir, and too fast and your tender is a kite. Anybody ever hear of such a derailment ?

I had no idea what these were so last night I did a google search and came across this link which does a real good job of explaining the ins and outs, with some neat pictures as well. http://jimquest.com/writ/trains/pans/scoop2.htm

I have never heard of any derailments caused by the water pressure lifting the tender. The force of the water is limited by the area of the scoop, there is probably not anywhere near enough force to lift the tender. Most of the force would be applied against the forward motion of the train/tender, the most likely thing would be the train slowing down or stalling. But I have never heard of that happening either. The non PT type tenders did scoop water at slower speeds (about 60 mph). The PT type tenders (first introduced on the Niagaras and later installed on many Hudsons) could scoop at 80 mph since they were equipped with a series of overflow vent pipes. Multiple pipes reduced the drag onthe water. As far as I know there was no operator action needed since the vent pipes just allowed water above a certain level in the tender to leave.

The scoops were activated by a large compressed air cylinder very similar to a brake cylinder, except is was "double acting" and used air to both extend and retract the scoop. The operating valve was mounted on the front wall of the tender.

Signal lights were installed (blue and white) to indicate the beginning and end of the pans.

Common accidents included;

Failure to retract the scoop in time (big AW SH-T) this caused at least one bad wreck out in Ohio when the scoop ripped up a bunch of ties and derailed a train at a grade crossing just in front of the Commodore Vanderbilt coming the other way at 80 mph.

Hobos riding between the back of the tender and the front of the train got covered with water and froze to death in the winter.

Cheers, Kevin

48toNYP wrote:The Churchville pans were roughly between MP 385 and 386. They were just east of Black Creek on a straightaway closely paralleled by Savage Rd (Some of it is actually Baker St., the road changes names right at the village line). A small water tower stood on the southern side of the ROW. The Newman-Riga library in Churchville has a few photos of the track pans in the local history section.

Thanks - that's the info I was looking for!

roadster wrote:regarding the Churchville pans. A couple years ago CSX cleared the ditch along the Southside of the r.o.w. and exposed what I thought, appeared to be several concrete pedistal type bases. Now with the mention of a water tank, these must have been the foundations for the towers bents.

That clears up a mystery. A couple winters ago, while exploring the south side of the ROW west of signal bridge 384 I stumbled over odd remnants of concrete foundation about midway between the private road crossing and the Black Creek bridge. Sounds like the debris is remains of the water tank footer - or perhaps water pan boiler/pump house foundation.

...FB

Is anyone aware of any video footage of a track pan in use? It sounds fairly dramatic. I've searched youtube and google, but perhaps I just haven't used the correct combination of words. As always, any help is appreciated!

I have a couple NYC videos which were commercially available showing scooping water on the fly. "Reflections of the New York Central" is one. I'll try to find the other, and let you know.