Through routing trains to NYP

How do you feel about having about 3-4 trains each weekday rush hour and some on weekends from every SEPTA Regional Rail branch go straight to New York Penn Station? A ride on the Train Could be a $20 Round trip.

SEPTA would have to aquire trains with restrooms.

Access to NYP would have to be expanded. It is currently at capacity during rush hour.

Bensalem SEPTA rider wrote:How do you feel about having about 3-4 trains each weekday rush hour and some on weekends from every SEPTA Regional Rail branch go straight to New York Penn Station? A ride on the Train Could be a $20 Round trip.

The Reading used to offer the service using FP7's and coaches in the 60's and later using RDC's from Reading Terminal to Newark via West Trenton & Bound Brook until the early 80's. The Wall Street and The Crusader. Had to change trains in Newark cause you can't take a diesel under the Hudson. I believe there's a market, but politically, it won't happen.

chuchubob wrote:SEPTA would have to aquire trains with restrooms.

Access to NYP would have to be expanded. It is currently at capacity during rush hour.

Umm, just stations. I'm sure people will be smart enough to not to eat right before getting on the train. And if you're just sitting there, wouldn't you be soothed enough that you won't be thinking about that so you won't get the urges?

Transit could do it, but I doubt that there would be direct commuter service between PHL and NYC. First of all, most of the passengers on the Clockers get on in Jersey. That's why it would make sense for the Clockers to stay on their own turf, and I mean serve the public in the state where it is supposed to be.

First off, I don't get this obsession with bathrooms. If you're over the age of 12, you ought to know better than to get on a train without a pit stop. Sure there are situations where you can't stop, but really, I don't see why its such a critical concern. It would be a nice addition, but its not a deal-breaker.

Running any more trains into New York Penn Station seems to be the main roadblock in a great many transit plans. I think theres a market for reasonably priced travel between Philly and NYC. Look at the number of people doing the trenton shuffle, or taking the chinatown bus.

There are a number of proposals floating around to improve rail access to NYC. Looking at plans to link Penn Station to Grand Central (or South Station to North in Boston) makes you appreciate that Philly actually delivered on the CCCT and Railworks. At the moment, just about any plan is stuck in limbo pending NYC's olympic bid. If that goes through, we just might see rail restoration to nearby cities with international airports, like Scranton, LVI, and Philly, to a new connector from Newark or Hoboken into Lower manhatan and if they go nuts through to Flatbush on the LIRR, eventually to the long planned long island sound bridge/tunnel/teleporter. That along with a new freight connection from jersey city through staten island to the Bay Ridge Branch. Makes you long for the simplicity of restoring trains to Reading, no?

I too would like to see a lower-cost method of getting between NY and PHL which does not rely upon bus travel. Amtrak can't get the funding for anything, so they have to raise prices where they can to squeeze what funding they can out of the passengers. I wouldn't mind seeing SEPTA through-run a few NJT expresses out of NYP to Trenton down to Suburban Station, charging on the order of 20 or so dollars for the ride. However, it is Amtrak that has the charter on intercity travel throughout the country, you start acting like Amtrak should potentially give some of their lower income ridership (which indeed doesn't exist, Amtrak has priced itself out of some people's grasp) to a joint NJT-SEPTA local service between Philly and NYC, then Amtrak might retaliate by killing the current Trenton-shuffle through-ticketing arrangement, giving East River tunnel slots to LIRR, or any other number of things to keep it from happening.

Instead of trying to do something that could be seen as removing passengers from Amtrak and giving them to NJT+SEPTA, why not attempt to find a way for Amtrak to better serve their passengers. Why not have Amtrak institute a third class for it's corridor trains? I realize Amtrak is pressed for cash right now, but hypothetically have Amtrak call up Alstom and get a few dozen (24-36) Comet Vs from them, specced for 125mph operation and with the center doors removed and replaced by 1 to 2 rows of seating. These cars would hold on the order of 120 passengers seated, with few of the creature comforts found on the 1st or 2nd class Amfleet cars. With the cost of running the train spread over these lower class cars (perhaps 2 or 3 tacked on to each Regional and Metroliner), a lower cost per ticket could be passed on to the riders. Ticket prices perhaps would range from 20 to 30 dollars for a Regional 3rd class ride from 30th St Station to NYP, while it'd be on the order of 45-55 dollars to be hitched onto the back of a Metroliner. The number of trains on the corridor would remain as it currently is, but now hopefully some empty space on existing trains would be filled in by Comet Vs removing some passengers from Greyhound and the Chinabuses.

Bensalem SEPTA rider wrote:

chuchubob wrote:SEPTA would have to aquire trains with restrooms.

Access to NYP would have to be expanded. It is currently at capacity during rush hour.

Umm, just stations. I'm sure people will be smart enough to not to eat right before getting on the train. And if you're just sitting there, wouldn't you be soothed enough that you won't be thinking about that so you won't get the urges?

tinmad dog wrote:First off, I don't get this obsession with bathrooms. If you're over the age of 12, you ought to know better than to get on a train without a pit stop. Sure there are situations where you can't stop, but really, I don't see why its such a critical concern. It would be a nice addition, but its not a deal-breaker.

I believe it's an ADA concern. If you go and start up a new service using money from the Federal Government to buy equipment and facilities then you're going to need to meet all current EPA, ADA and all other government agency regulations. I know the Silverliners are all grandfathered in due to their being purchased before the ADA was passed, and I guess SEPTA got around the regulations on the Shoreliner IIs by having bathrooms, just not using them then claiming it's a short operation. It is unacceptable to expect your passengers to hold it for 2 hours on a run from 30th St Station to NYP. That's the kind of 'screw the customers' thinking that's slowly bleeding SEPTA dry these days.

NJT can do a much better job than SEPTA running into NYC.

Rest rooms are not an ADA requirement, AFAIK, though if you install them on a vehicle, they must be accessible. They're a basic customer amenity for a means of transportation where trips might be an hour or longer.

I wonder how many of those who downplay the need have and have traveled with small children.

[Post deleted due to content.] -Mod.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:Rest rooms are not an ADA requirement, AFAIK, though if you install them on a vehicle, they must be accessible. They're a basic customer amenity for a means of transportation where trips might be an hour or longer.

I wonder how many of those who downplay the need have and have traveled with small children.

Excellent point, I guess we should expect to see toilets in all of GM's models at the car show next week. Ok, that's a bit much. I'll concede the point on small kids, though. However, I can't remember the last time I saw a family of 5 do the Trenton Shuffle. Its always kinda funny when one of the trains is delayed at Trenton cause you have a platform loaded with people and most of them are traveling alone. Though I guess the delayed train gives people the opportunity to hit the head. I think my point was that I don't understand why a lack of on-train facilities is seen as a major roadblock to providing any medium to long-distance service. In a way the post is spot on: restrooms are a basic Amenity, like comfy seats and clean cars, as opposed to a Necessity. I'm certainly not against their inclusion, I just think their are bigger fish to fry.

I think the key reason Septa is so deficient on bathrooms is the money. More bathrooms means more people paid to clean them. These days, Bathrooms on trains probably means multi-million dollar sanitation equipment, and people trained to use it. How much more is the union going to ask for if their job description suddenly includes pumping human waste out of storage tanks.

Still, got wonder what an engineer or conductor does if he has to go.

tinmad dog wrote:Still, got wonder what an engineer or conductor does if he has to go.

They stop at a station and go in to use the facilities. I've seen trains wait at Glenside while a crew member runs in (then again I've also seen trains wait while a crew member gets a sandwich). Availability of facilities is specified in the contract. I don't know the specifics for the RRD, but SEPTA has rest rooms at some of the transit route endpoints (e.g. Cheltenham and Ogontz) and they contract with stores, restaurants, etc. to allow operators to come in and use the facilities when necessary.

And the difference between traveling by car and traveling by train is you can stop the car whenever needed and for however long as needed. The train's gotta keep moving though, which is why you gotta accommodate people's needs on board the train.

I agree with Wdobner that Amtrak should be the one to handle this kind of intercity traffic, and that they should have higher-density seating on the NEC. I have traveled by train in Europe, and the seat pitch is smaller but still very comfortable. The more people you have on a train, the more efficient it is, and the lower the ticket price can be.

I think the Acela Express should have been a three-class configuration. You could have had both higher speeds and higher passenger capacity with one order of train sets. The NYC-WAS part of the NEC needs more seats. The higher seating density is standard in other parts of the world.

See the Atlantic City Press article:

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news ... IT_F10.cfm

about possible NJ Transit between NYC and 30th Street and/or Atlantic City.

Bill R. WD and everyone: Through routed service by NJT and SEPTA would be a major improvment for this line. I remember back before NJT and SEPTA direct operation 1982 and before when Conrail operated both under contract there was two and then only one thru local train to NY. This train would use SEPTA-owned Silver II/III cars and changed crews at TRE. This last run would leave PHS about 945p change crews at TRE at 1040p arriving in NYP just before midnight laying over in NYP until 445am changing crews at TRE around 6am arriving back at PHS just before 7am. My point is that it was done and can be again if the three agencies can work together to make it happen. I recall a thru 2-piece ticket sold for about $7 PHL-TRE-NYP. The local service since 1983 has improved dramatically as well as the gentlemans agreement between NJT and SEPTA on the Trenton shuffle. If all parties can set aside their differences.. United we stand but divided...I have made my point. Respectfully submitted - MACTRAXX