The Type 8 Discussion to End All Discussions(Type 8 tracker)

aline1969 wrote:as a transit rider I rather sit, so more seats please.. standing stinks, less seats is going backwards and may turn riders off and go back to their cars. Other cities like Denver, St Louis, Houston and NJ Transit all have handicap modern cars and they kept the forward facing seats

I doubt that forward-facing arrangement on a Type 8 would result in a sizable increase in seating capacity. While I have issues with the Type 8s, I think that they were designed with the realities of Green Line ridership in mind. Losing a handful of seats isn't so bad when you can fit a larger number of standees on board. On the GL, that is vitally important.

aline1969 wrote:as a transit rider I rather sit, so more seats please.. standing stinks, less seats is going backwards and may turn riders off and go back to their cars. Other cities like Denver, St Louis, Houston and NJ Transit all have handicap modern cars and they kept the forward facing seats

Of course, St. Louis', Denver's and Houston's mass transit systems were built about 100 years after Boston's was built. For example, all of the platforms on the St. Louis system -- where I lived for several years and which first opened in 1993, after ADA was enacted -- are elevated, and so the entire train can be on one level and still be handicapped accessible. Denver appears to be the same. Houston does appear to have multi-level cars. However, whether because of the handicapped accessibility or for some other reasons, the aisle is extremely narrow, narrower than on a Type 7, and it looks like it'd be challenging to bring, say, a carry-on rolling bag through the aisle. Given the number of people who use the Green Line to reach South Station or Logan, that's a definite minus.

Nevertheless, the plain fact is that the Type 8s have a total of two fewer seats than the Type 7s. In other words, seating capacity on the Type 8s is a little more than 4% less. And the use of seats parallel to the walls also frees up more standing room. All in all, not a bad decision in my view. Frankly, I personally don't care whether I face forward or backward, and the loss of two seats isn't going to make much of a difference because I usually give up my seat to someone who needs it more than me anyway.

stand if you like, I like to sit, I agree to disagree thank you

I just had a thought on how to fix the problem of Breda derailments. Why don't the MBTA just install a steel plate weighing about 1 to 2 tons right in the articulated section of the Bredas, just above the center truck.

This should give the added mass to keep the center truck firmly on the ground instead of jumping tracks.

Thoughts?

I just had a thought on how to fix the problem of Breda derailments. Why don't the MBTA just install a steel plate weighing about 1 to 2 tons right in the articulated section of the Bredas, just above the center truck.

This should give the added mass to keep the center truck firmly on the ground instead of jumping tracks.

Thoughts?

Only question I would have is would they still be able to make it up the hills and grades on the system, most notably those on the B line and the very steep incline at Leverett Circle?

Veristek wrote:I just had a thought on how to fix the problem of Breda derailments. Why don't the MBTA just install a steel plate weighing about 1 to 2 tons right in the articulated section of the Bredas, just above the center truck.

This should give the added mass to keep the center truck firmly on the ground instead of jumping tracks.

Thoughts?

Although this would help to keep the center truck weighted down, it would offset the balance of weight throughout the length of the car. The weight is distributed for maximum traction and stability. Adding dead weight is more dangerous than not adding weight at all.

Hmm, hadn't thought of it that way. I heard the center trucks were "stubs" and not real train trucks. Would replacing these "stubs" with real train trucks help more than a steel deadweight?

My steel deadweight idea came from my experiences with model railroading. A few train cars always jumped switches and curves in my layout, so I added a couple of steel washers inside these cars, and then these cars didn't jump at all afterwards.

Another alternative is perhaps spreading the steel "plate" along the whole length of the train, to maintain the stability and center of gravity it needs?

Any engineers out there with ideas or thoughts how to fix this Breda derailing problem?

Real trucks have axles which would eliminate the low-floor area and make them relatively non-ADA complaint. ADA compliance is not only wheelchair but also limited mobility. If I am not mistaken one of the first mods made to the Type 8 was dead weight plates added to the center section.

Remember under the seats in the front/rear sections carry sand, electronics and so on. So there is not much space for dead weight. Although, in full disclosure, I add my dead weight over the trucks if I can.

JoeD

Earlier this week a 2-car train (the second being a type-8) rolled out of the rail yard and stopped at the inbound platform at Riverside. It sat there for a minute or two and I almost expected it to let people on, a number of people had started walking towards it. After a minute it took off, it was actually very strange to see it sitting there pristine and shiny. Im always anxious every time Im at Riverside, watching the 8s putter around the rail yard like "maybe it will be today".

lockt87 wrote:Earlier this week a 2-car train (the second being a type-8) rolled out of the rail yard and stopped at the inbound platform at Riverside. It sat there for a minute or two and I almost expected it to let people on, a number of people had started walking towards it. After a minute it took off, it was actually very strange to see it sitting there pristine and shiny. Im always anxious every time Im at Riverside, watching the 8s putter around the rail yard like "maybe it will be today".

Did you catch a number? 3885, 3892, 3893, and 3894 are unaccepted and still in burn-in testing. Haven't been any new ones sent into revenue service recently as 3890 and 3891 have been active since earlier in Spring, so if it was a "shiny" one that could've been one of the 4 unaccepteds.

10 years later we're getting very close to seeing this car order finally done!

It didnt even occur to me to check the model number, I think I was just so shocked by it being there I didnt know what to do. It may have just been moving to the Reservoir yard for C or B service since it was running with a 7 in front. Ill check what number 8s I can find tomorrow when I'll be there. I have my fingers crossed!

If it was with a Type 7 it wouldn't have been a test train. The test trains normally run solo.

I had 3820 tonight on my way home from class and noticed that they had the new fugly multi-colored "vandal-proof" seat "cushions". (cushions in quotes b/c whether or not they actually cushion anything is up for debate). They still had the green pads on the 4 half seats in the middle section. Also one seat in the middle section had half new "cushion" half old cushion mismatched. I really hope the T isn't planning on converting the type 8s to the new style seats. I have never seen the original ones vandalized so I think it's a really pointless and wasteful move.

danib62 wrote:I had 3820 tonight on my way home from class and noticed that they had the new fugly multi-colored "vandal-proof" seat "cushions". (cushions in quotes b/c whether or not they actually cushion anything is up for debate). They still had the green pads on the 4 half seats in the middle section. Also one seat in the middle section had half new "cushion" half old cushion mismatched. I really hope the T isn't planning on converting the type 8s to the new style seats. I have never seen the original ones vandalized so I think it's a really pointless and wasteful move.

sort of off topic, but I liked the old seats because with the AC blaring, it felt good to sit on something cold.

The vandal proof seats were installed on some of the type 6's but were later converted back to the plastic ones. It's kind of pointless because as the vandal proof seats age, they can get vandalized anyway. Having the mismatched seats also tells people that the MBTA is doing sloppy work with their maintenance.

How're those Type 8's on the D-Line coming along, by the way? I moved out of Boston a few weeks ago, so I have no first-hand knowledge. All I know is they're 7 months late, and counting...