Swampoodle connection

If the money becomes available, this project needs major reconsideration. That at grade junction at N. Philly is infuriating. Amtrak treats other RR's commuters like 2nd class citizens, but the CHW line is more like 3rd rater or something.

They are RIGHT next to each other...the connection was not made due to financial concerns, right? How much money would it really take to make the connection?

Too bad they didn't keep the plans and apply for stimulus funding...

DeltaV wrote:They are RIGHT next to each other...the connection was not made due to financial concerns, right?

It's not as easy as it looks on the map. There are issues of power supply and track capacity at 16th Street Junction besides the cost factor. (I suspect it might actually save operating costs thanks to fewer car miles on Amtrak.)

Such a project would be rather contemptuous of Amtrak just spent a lot of money to resignal that part of the NEC to increase capacity for SEPTA and of the PRR which built that line to spite the Reading. SEPTA should remain mindful of its heritage and not allow PRR and Reading territories to mix except for the neutral zone of the Center City tunnel.

Jersey_Mike wrote:Such a project would be rather contemptuous of Amtrak just spent a lot of money to resignal that part of the NEC to increase capacity for SEPTA and of the PRR which built that line to spite the Reading. SEPTA should remain mindful of its heritage and not allow PRR and Reading territories to mix except for the neutral zone of the Center City tunnel.

This is the problem with most railfans today. You shouldn't just shelve a project because of "heritage". Also keep in mind, those that are allocating money at the Federal/State/Local level don't care about "heritage" unless it's on a historical register.

Interesting that it is considered by some that Septa is treated unfairly on Amtrak, lets face it it is Amtraks railroad, each evening the Septa train I am on is held at North Philly for a CHW train, then we get held for NJT if they are on our heels, and then we get held for the Acela, We don't complain about it as there is time that the general public doesn't see built into the schedule to allow for that, just because we sit and "let" another train go by doesn't mean we are treated less fairly, if it was your RR wouldn't you put your trains first and keep your passengers happy? yesterday trains were using the Berries that caused all sorts of mayhem at Girard, but we all got through with minimal delay. If you really want to see how hard dispatching is try your hand at a game call Sim-Sig (UK based but it will drive you nuts with mass confusion).

Jersey_Mike wrote:Such a project would be rather contemptuous of Amtrak just spent a lot of money to resignal that part of the NEC to increase capacity for SEPTA and of the PRR which built that line to spite the Reading. SEPTA should remain mindful of its heritage and not allow PRR and Reading territories to mix except for the neutral zone of the Center City tunnel.

That's the same way I run my HO scale SEPTA empire. Makes for longer runs on my 4x8 foot layout.

PS - my model 269 "PENNSYLVANIA" SL II is NEVER allowed on the Reading side.

MelroseMatt wrote:

Jersey_Mike wrote:Such a project would be rather contemptuous of Amtrak just spent a lot of money to resignal that part of the NEC to increase capacity for SEPTA and of the PRR which built that line to spite the Reading. SEPTA should remain mindful of its heritage and not allow PRR and Reading territories to mix except for the neutral zone of the Center City tunnel.

That's the same way I run my HO scale SEPTA empire. Makes for longer runs on my 4x8 foot layout.

PS - my model 269 "PENNSYLVANIA" SL II is NEVER allowed on the Reading side.

So 269 works on the R6 Ivy Ridge?

Ken S. wrote:

MelroseMatt wrote:

Jersey_Mike wrote:Such a project would be rather contemptuous of Amtrak just spent a lot of money to resignal that part of the NEC to increase capacity for SEPTA and of the PRR which built that line to spite the Reading. SEPTA should remain mindful of its heritage and not allow PRR and Reading territories to mix except for the neutral zone of the Center City tunnel.

That's the same way I run my HO scale SEPTA empire. Makes for longer runs on my 4x8 foot layout.

PS - my model 269 "PENNSYLVANIA" SL II is NEVER allowed on the Reading side.

So 269 works on the R6 Ivy Ridge?

Actually, it runs to Pottstown.

This is the problem with most railfans today. You shouldn't just shelve a project because of "heritage". Also keep in mind, those that are allocating money at the Federal/State/Local level don't care about "heritage" unless it's on a historical register.

It would also disrupt the character of the neighborhood as I am certain that people who work closer to 30th St or Suburban (or U Penn) have bought homes closer to the PRR stations and those who work closer to Independence Mall and Temple U have bought homes closer to the Reading Stations. Not to mention depriving CH residents of the choice of which end of downtown they would prefer to reach first. It also puts ones eggs in one basket if there is a service disruption on the SEPTA Main Line.

I seriously hope you're joking Mike otherwise you are sounding more nuts by the day.Who cares what the heritage of the line was and who lives where. Your theory got blown out the water when the through routing took place and you had Reading cars traveling on the Pennsy and vice versa and guess what ? The passengers dont care and neither should you. I seriously think I need to find you a girlfriend so that way you wont have to think about this stuff much

If I lived in CH and my train started taking 5-10 minutes longer to get me to 30th St than it used to I think I would care. I would also care if a disruption on the SEPTA Main Line hosed both options to Center City. There is a lot of criticism directed at the CHW-CHE setup on how that neighborhood is over served with transit when other parts of the city are under served. Nothing we can do about that now, but at least Chestnut Hill has diversity of service. The real legacy of the PRR/Reading rivalry is a little thing called competition and even if both lines are operated by SEPTA residents have a choice of which which service they use. If you take away the choice of routing into Center City you might as well just save your money and shut down one of the lines (a la Norristown) or turn one into light rail connecting with the BSS.

The Swampoodle connection only makes sense in the context of the 1980's line balancing scheme that had been completely discredited. It's not like 16th St junction isn't any less congested than North Philadelphia at peak times. It is really better trying to get both the R6 and R8 across the 4-track flat junction with conflicting R1, 2, 3, 5, 7 and deadhead traffic to Roberts, especially with SEPTAs brand of computer aided dispatch? If Amtrak is being a douche either talk with them, pay them more money or pay for some high speed turnouts to move traffic more efficiently on the Connecting Railroad.

Jersey_Mike wrote: It would also disrupt the character of the neighborhood as I am certain that people who work closer to 30th St or Suburban (or U Penn) have bought homes closer to the PRR stations and those who work closer to Independence Mall and Temple U have bought homes closer to the Reading Stations. Not to mention depriving CH residents of the choice of which end of downtown they would prefer to reach first. It also puts ones eggs in one basket if there is a service disruption on the SEPTA Main Line.

I doubt this even figures in most people's top ten reasons to buy in a given neighborhood. I, myself, just moved to the Reading side even though I work at 30th St. It's a few minutes more on the train, but there were enough other reasons to make it a good idea. As to the two sides intermingling, when I even mention "Pennsylvania side" or "Reading side" to the average commuter, the typical reaction is a blank stare.

The two Chestnut Hills lines meet up fairly close in Chestnut Hill, but they run through different neighborhoods getting there. The real purpose of retaining both lines is to serve all the different intervening neighborhoods, not to provide Chestnut Hill itself with redundant service; that's juts a benefit.

SilentCal wrote: I doubt this even figures in most people's top ten reasons to buy in a given neighborhood. I, myself, just moved to the Reading side even though I work at 30th St. It's a few minutes more on the train, but there were enough other reasons to make it a good idea. As to the two sides intermingling, when I even mention "Pennsylvania side" or "Reading side" to the average commuter, the typical reaction is a blank stare.

If you work in the city when buying the house, I'm sure it does factor in and is probably in the top five. OTOH, would you move because you took a different job off the other line? no. I'd also add that routing through cc gets you one advantage in trading off for a longer commute...a stop at the fast growing u city station.

of course, I might prefer a light rail connection to the BSS if it ran every ten minutes and cost a token than either the current infrequent train or building the swampoodle jct