Sounding of the Horn

Can someone explain to me the rules to blowing the horn because I'm really confused now? I always thought for Public crossings it was... Long, Long, Short, Long and had to be at least 15 seconds long and no longer than 20 seconds. For private crossings, overpass, underpass and bridges/trestles the horn is to be blown once... Long about 5 seconds long. (Excluding whistle ban areas)
If this is the case than explain to me why the Guilford crews in Nashua blows the horn... Short, Short, Toot, Long and only last about 10 seconds at best? Did Nashua restricted the horn to that format (if you want to call it that) or is the Guilford grew just not fallowing the rules? Or is there no regulation to blowing the horn?

You will find a difference between the railroad rules, and municipal rules.

Railroad rules set the pattern - as you say, long, long, short, long. I believe some rules may state the last one is to be blown until the engine is across the road. But I'm not aware of any railroad rules saying how long each blast must be.

Municipal laws probably vary from state to state, and the FRA has gotten into the matter as well. What is interesting is that some laws are archaic and have no relation to reality. In many cases, a quarter mile is the prescribed distance the horn must be sounded. Well, if it's 10 MPH track, that's a minute and a half to travel that distance, and at 2AM you're going to make a lot of folks interested in whistle bans. Plus, if it happens to be a 55 MPH highway, with a car traveling 60 MPH, the car would be a mile and a half away when the whistle starts, and not apt to hear it at that point.

Do only some railroads require whistling for underpasses and bridges? Here in Terre Haute, Idiana, where the CSX and CP trains whistle long and loud for dozens of crossings, they never whistle for the underpass, the bridges over the Wabash, or the other couple bridges more than 100 feet long.

BR&P is correct about the FRA getting strict about enforcing of Whistles at crossings. The minimum is 15 seconds and maximum is 20 seconds between the beginning blast and end of the last, so BR&P is also correct in stating that the rule of beginning to sound the whistle at a whistle post has been thrown out the window and it is up to the engineer to time it so he blows the --O- for at least 15 seconds, but not to exceed 20 seconds and until the engine has completely occupied the crossing. As for tunnels, the bell is usually required. As for operating rules varying from railroad to railroad, this is also true as some companies, like CSXT, have their own operating rules, whereas others are uniform and follow the same, such as Guilford, MBCR & Amtrak, which use NORAC Operating Rules. Btw, the sounding of the whistle for crossings, which is 2 longs,a short, and a long, is Norac rule 19b, which is the same as 14-L on CSXT.

Quite a controversy going over the use of horns at grade crossings in many communities. It seems the generation that thrives on aural and chemical stimulations (loud, heavy beat music and heavy doses of caffiene) is also the group most disturbed by trains blowing at public grade crossings. Unless otherwise restricted, a train is to blow for these crossings no matter how otherwise guarded. However, there are some communities who have been able to curtail the use of horns especially overnight. Now, the FRA is stepping in and saying these rules have expired and trains have to blow or communities have to put up horns at the crossings; thus there is a struggle.

All that being said, to address a few things listed above: 1) There are some roads that require trains to blow when entering a station where passengers may be standing; this especially so in commuter zones and when train is on the platform track. 2) Although private crossings and other exempt crossings do not need the train horn sounded, some engineers, especially those who have had trouble(s) (i.e., previously hit a car or pedestrain, or had a near miss) at that crossing, will blow. THe same hold true for overpasses, curves, etc., where there have been previous incidents or known problems. 3) Most railroads have rules now which prohibit the excessive use of the horn for other than uses prescribed by the rules or for safety.

Now, the monkey wrench: Today's automobile and truck cabs are 1) sound insulated; 2) super equipped with stereo and sound around systems; 3) drivers have phones to their ears if not full headphones; 4) drivers are otherwise distracted with ciggaretts, drinks and food, computers, a car full of friends or kids or other noises or whatever. Therefore the use of a train horn becomes useless anyway. No matter how else the crossing is guarded, too. A new system of blocking crossings in advance of a train is needed. No longer does the horn neccessarily work and it may not be possible (cost, geography, whatever) to place overpass or underpass in the stead of the crossing.

There is the controversey. Emotional needs of quiet do not solve it. Nor does all the money in the world. Educating drivers has been less effective than desired. There are so many stupid horror stories of how cars end up on the front of a train or into its side, it is hideous. What is the real answer to blowing for a crossing?

MOVED WHERE?

Many years ago an old head once told me:"The rules don't say how long or how loud the horn must be blown". He was correct back then, but times do change.

Where I live, there are some hoggers who blow the horn the "correct" way at crossings, and others who are a bit lazy about it and just do a quick little "toot toot t-toot" just before they hit the crossing. I've never seen/heard a hogger blow the horn for a bridge, unless there was somebody on the bridge.

I only say the bridges because I know the CSRR does, but then again its state owned tracks and they have to fallow NHDOT rules. There not blowing the horn just for the hell of it either; just before every bridge on the CSRR there that sign W telling them to, even for the two over passes.

Just curious, what is the CSRR? Not heard of them before.....

GOLDEN-ARM wrote:Just curious, what is the CSRR? Not heard of them before.....

Just in case anyone ever thought that sounding the horn was just a simple jesture to warn people of an impending crossing AND in case anyone has trouble sleeping, here are a couple of ducuments published by the Federal Rail Administsration (FRA) regarding sounding the horn. Happy reading (or sleeping).

http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/rrdev/ ... MASTER.pdf

http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads//safet ... 042105.pdf

I was talking with my road foreman the other day and while he was in DSLE school he had a chance to talk to the lawyer who represents us in case of a grade crossing incident. The lawyer basically said he would rather pay the fine for us blowing the whistle outside the prescribed limits of no less than 15 sec but no more than 20. I think he said it was around five hundred dollars. Rather than being sued by the surviving family members for possibly millions, not to mention when they pull your tapes and find out you were short of missing the minimum 15 sec. I still start at the whistle post and continue the sequence until the crossing is occupied.

Railjunkie wrote:I was talking with my road foreman the other day and while he was in DSLE school he had a chance to talk to the lawyer who represents us in case of a grade crossing incident. The lawyer basically said he would rather pay the fine for us blowing the whistle outside the prescribed limits of no less than 15 sec but no more than 20. I think he said it was around five hundred dollars. Rather than being sued by the surviving family members for possibly millions,

That's right, better safe than sorry....we all just have to cover our own as$e& nowadays. Btw, was the road foreman Joe B.?

Nope Im a zone 3 engineer out of ALB and I agree that the best mode of operation is CYA...