Second Ave Subway Construction thru Phase I open

Sarge wrote:Is there any provision for a connection to the Lex at 125th? I'm guessing with the over-capacity issues on the line, they wouldn't divert any trains down 2nd, and couldn't run any 2nd Av trains up into the Bronx over the line, either.

I was thinking they could extend it along 125th and try to loop it up onto the Broadway line (2,3), but I don't think that really adds anything to the line. If they could tunnel up into the Bronx and into Oak Point, maybe they could run it along two new tracks on the NEC right-of-way (the old NH Harlem / Hell Gate Branch). That would seem to make more sense to me then the plan to run commuter rail along that branch, and could give Co-Op much needed service.

The plan is to have the 125th St station perpendicular and beneath the IRT 125th St station.

Yeah, the left turn at 125th doesn't leave much options, I was hoping they'd curve underneath. Maybe they could do something similar to ESA and bring it up Madison and into the Bronx that way. The best idea, though, is to get it onto the old NH ROW to extend it into the Bronx and Co-Op. I think they'd have to run under what is it, 138th in the Bronx? or 149th to get the transfers.

Fortunately, there will be a stub at 125th and 2nd Avenue that would allow for an extension to the Bronx - someday, maybe.

The 1960s plan had two options that I know about. One was under 138th Street, the other was through the Harlem River Yards. Both would have connected to the Hew Haven ROW.

They are planning on possibly building storage tracks at 125th street that would continue north under 2nd ave rather than swing east on 125st towards the Lex/MN station. These tracks would form the basis for a possibly future extension into the Bronx.

http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sas/docum ... re2-13.pdf

Thanks for the answers. Nice to know they've planned for the future. Maybe Bloomie's congestion plan will utilize this. The linked map shows how close the Harlem R is to 2nd and 125th, I could see an easy connection to the yards across the river (Harlem? Or Oak Point?). I think that's where the old NYW&B terminal was.

The 125th stub could serve as a wye, if you build a northbound connection off the stub. Aren't they doing something similar at GCT to facilitate transfers?

Yes, that is the Harlem River Yard - and that is generally the area of the former NYW&B terminal.

The 1960s plan considered a subway station in that area; I assume there would have been housing or some other redevelopment around it.

The Regional Plan Association offered another idea: a subway under Willis Avenue and Boston Road to the Morris Park area. But that was only a suggestion; it was never part of the MTA's planning process.

Yes, a 125th Street crosstown route would fill a gap in the network that is now covered only by slow busses.

Using the Nassau Street line as an extension of the Second Avenue subway was one of the options examined in the 1990s. The present plans don't call for any kind of track connection.

However, it will be a decade, at least, before any construction is done in Lower Manhattan, so there may be time to revise the plans.

The 125th street crosstown sounds good. The Nassau connection.... That line is so broken down. It would take a lot of work to bring it up to the standard of the SAS. Also, I don't know the alignment. Does it have sharp curves? If so, maybe a new route to Hanover square would be faster and and no more costly than bringing Nassau street up to spec. A transfer between lines would be a different story.

Also, I don’t see the service that would be furnished by a Nassau Street connection to the SAS as necessary. The SAS has a planned connection to Brooklyn, via a transfer at Grand Street to service over the Manhattan Bridge. Though not offering the stops at Court and Lawrence streets, that does basically, Brooklyn-wise, what the Nassau Street connection does. I don’t know the history of that Nassau Street line, but it seems to me to be one of the most poorly thought out sections of the subway.

If someone else does know what the Nassau Street line was supposed to be about, it might be a nice theme for a new topic.

I'm convinced then. There are precedents for temporary connections; long ago the Putnam Bridge connected the Jerome Avenue IRT line to Manhattan while the tube under the Harlem River to Lexington Ave was being built.

I definitely would like to see, perhaps, a connection from the 63rd St line to the 60th St bores under the east river. That would enable an Astoria express service, something needed for that area.