RVL Whitehouse Passing Siding Progress

Tooler wrote:In the fine print, NJT notes that existing train schedules, not just numbers will be changed. It will be a whole new ballgame.

The deadhead list is going to see some changes also.

Extended RVL schedules for October 28 are now on NJT's website.

Raritan Express wrote:Extended RVL schedules for October 28 are now on NJT's website.

Trains 5721 and 5725 have twenty-two minutes to go from Annandale to High Bridge? Gotta love the schedule padding!

transit383 wrote:

Raritan Express wrote:Extended RVL schedules for October 28 are now on NJT's website.

Trains 5721 and 5725 have twenty-two minutes to go from Annandale to High Bridge? Gotta love the schedule padding!

22 minutes?!?!?!? Talk about extreme!!!!

I didn't compare the new timetables, but the RVL has some wierd scheduling - they make the schedules REDICULOUSLY tight and impossible to keep often times, and then give like 5-6 minutes inbetween Fanwood and Westfield to "catch up" - same thing with going west and many locals (that used to end in Raritan) with a LOT of inbetween Somerville and Raritan, but making it damn near impossible to be anywhere close to schedule going west at any other stops......and that is without any freight interference on the LL. That throws a whole other wrench in things!!!!!!!

Peronally, I think thats better than having lots of fat inbetween intermediate stops, making the train sit just a few stops from the destination - thats how it is on the Coast Line, in particular west of Matawan. Its gets annoying having to sit in Middletown a few minutes because you have a good running set.........

Jtgshu wrote:I didn't compare the new timetables, but the RVL has some wierd scheduling - they make the schedules REDICULOUSLY tight and impossible to keep often times, and then give like 5-6 minutes inbetween Fanwood and Westfield to "catch up" - same thing with going west and many locals (that used to end in Raritan) with a LOT of inbetween Somerville and Raritan, but making it damn near impossible to be anywhere close to schedule going west at any other stops......and that is without any freight interference on the LL. That throws a whole other wrench in things!!!!!!!

Peronally, I think thats better than having lots of fat inbetween intermediate stops, making the train sit just a few stops from the destination - thats how it is on the Coast Line, in particular west of Matawan. Its gets annoying having to sit in Middletown a few minutes because you have a good running set.........

It seems to me that as time has been added to account for construction delays, e.g., the new bridge between Fanwood and Westfield, etc. and then when the project is complete, the padding is left in. 5702 has had somewhere close to 10 minutes added to its time over the past 10 years. And the October 28th timetable has it leaving High Bridge a minute earlier, but arriving at Newark at the same time, thus adding another minute.

Yea, you're right Ken, they tend to not take out extra fluff in the schedules, but rather simply add more.

Funny you mention about 10 years ago how time has been added - Id be curious as to how many cars were running on those trains then, if anyone remembers. Now, that the RVL is mostly 6 and one 7 car set, that is much slower to accelerate compared to a 3-4-5 car set.

I remember a few years back, NJT had schedules sort of set for the equipment that it would get - Some trains on the Coast LIne and Corridor at least would have faster running times compared to others. They of course, were the MU trains, while, the longer running times were the push pull sets. IIRC, the BIG schedule change in 2002 when evening rush was added, trians added and adjusted is when they pretty much got rid of this, as, it was too hard to keep dedicated types of consists for those trains. And of course, they went the longer route, and the longer times prevaled.

Jtgshu wrote:Yea, you're right Ken, they tend to not take out extra fluff in the schedules, but rather simply add more.

I know this discussion has been had once or twice, but there is some "padding" amongst the schedules that is just senseless. Like you said Jtgshu, they do it in some places so you guys can catch up where there is none. That's understandable. But...logistically...there has to be a way to even it out more logically. Or is that asking too much?

Wanderer wrote:I know this discussion has been had once or twice, but there is some "padding" amongst the schedules that is just senseless. Like you said Jtgshu, they do it in some places so you guys can catch up where there is none. That's understandable. But...logistically...there has to be a way to even it out more logically. Or is that asking too much?

Case in point: 5421 currently is due in to Raritan at 12:14PM, but when it becomes 5721 it is due into Raritan at 11:57AM. I see 5421 on a relatively frequent basis, and it usually arrives Raritan right at noon, 12:05 at the absolute latest. That's not even really "late." Why cant the arrival time be 12:00 noon, instead of 12:14? Using 11:57 as the time it should arrive to 12:14 when its scheduled to arrive, this train currently has seventeen minutes of padding. It only takes four minutes to go from Annandale to High Bridge, but the new schedule gives 5721 twenty two minutes, thus adding another minute of padding, bringing the total now to eighteen. Thats almost a minute per stop.

Same goes for the NJCL schedules, where sixteen minutes is given between Point Pleasant and Bay Head. Amazing how it takes sixteen minutes to go between PP and BH, but only three minutes to go from BH to PP.

transit383 wrote: Why cant the arrival time be 12:00 noon, instead of 12:14? .

Of course it could, but that would lower NJT's claimed on-time performance. So it maintains substantial padding.

Airlines have been known to do a similar thing, by closing the door and pushing back from the gate even when they know there is a ground hold and the plane will not be able to take off for quite some time. The airlines count closing the door as the departure time, so they can claim in advertising a high percentage of "on time departures."

All a shell game of sorts.

transit383 wrote:

Wanderer wrote:I know this discussion has been had once or twice, but there is some "padding" amongst the schedules that is just senseless. Like you said Jtgshu, they do it in some places so you guys can catch up where there is none. That's understandable. But...logistically...there has to be a way to even it out more logically. Or is that asking too much?

Case in point: 5421 currently is due in to Raritan at 12:14PM, but when it becomes 5721 it is due into Raritan at 11:57AM. I see 5421 on a relatively frequent basis, and it usually arrives Raritan right at noon, 12:05 at the absolute latest. That's not even really "late." Why cant the arrival time be 12:00 noon, instead of 12:14? Using 11:57 as the time it should arrive to 12:14 when its scheduled to arrive, this train currently has seventeen minutes of padding. It only takes four minutes to go from Annandale to High Bridge, but the new schedule gives 5721 twenty two minutes, thus adding another minute of padding, bringing the total now to eighteen. Thats almost a minute per stop.

Same goes for the NJCL schedules, where sixteen minutes is given between Point Pleasant and Bay Head. Amazing how it takes sixteen minutes to go between PP and BH, but only three minutes to go from BH to PP.

A few weeks ago, they were doing track work in the middle of the day that required taking a track out of service between Brook and Boyd. As a result, several westbound trains (including 5421, I believe) had to sit east of Brook for about 20 minutes to let the eastbounds go by. I'm not sure how often they do that, but if it's often enough, that would explain why the westbound schedule looks "padded" between Somerville and Raritan at times. Of course, the padding during the other times is strictly due to a woman named "Shirley".

Jtgshu wrote:Yea, you're right Ken, they tend to not take out extra fluff in the schedules, but rather simply add more.

Funny you mention about 10 years ago how time has been added - Id be curious as to how many cars were running on those trains then, if anyone remembers. Now, that the RVL is mostly 6 and one 7 car set, that is much slower to accelerate compared to a 3-4-5 car set.

Aw come on JT, you know that a 10 car set of Comet 1-B's with 1,000 passengers would move faster than a single Comet V coach with no passengers! You know how slow those damn doors are to open and close! That is, if they are working at all!

mcmannors wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:Yea, you're right Ken, they tend to not take out extra fluff in the schedules, but rather simply add more.

Funny you mention about 10 years ago how time has been added - Id be curious as to how many cars were running on those trains then, if anyone remembers. Now, that the RVL is mostly 6 and one 7 car set, that is much slower to accelerate compared to a 3-4-5 car set.

Aw come on JT, you know that a 10 car set of Comet 1-B's with 1,000 passengers would move faster than a single Comet V coach with no passengers! You know how slow those damn doors are to open and close! That is, if they are working at all!

Not to mention being able to come into the station with the doors already open, and leaving with them open too........as soon as everyone was on ..........beepbeep and hang out the door on the bottom step........oh the
"good ol days"

Just think - if the doors were able to be left open like in the old cars, all the time (like the railroad has operated for the past 150 years) for low level stations, the fella might not have been killed in Bradley Beach..........(if what they say is what happened, which is still up for debate)

gotta love progress...........

Ken W2KB wrote:

transit383 wrote: Why cant the arrival time be 12:00 noon, instead of 12:14? .

Of course it could, but that would lower NJT's claimed on-time performance. So it maintains substantial padding.

Airlines have been known to do a similar thing, by closing the door and pushing back from the gate even when they know there is a ground hold and the plane will not be able to take off for quite some time. The airlines count closing the door as the departure time, so they can claim in advertising a high percentage of "on time departures."

All a shell game of sorts.

I wouldn't be as cynical about this. With so many trains on the corridor, its pretty important for the RVL to make its slot, especially since it needs to cross the NEC at grade. Moreover, its also important because most RVL'ers make a scheduled transfer at NWK to either the PATH or another train. If its during off peak, the penalty for missing a connection can be much worse than the padding.

finsuburbia wrote:I wouldn't be as cynical about this. With so many trains on the corridor, its pretty important for the RVL to make its slot, especially since it needs to cross the NEC at grade. Moreover, its also important because most RVL'ers make a scheduled transfer at NWK to either the PATH or another train. If its during off peak, the penalty for missing a connection can be much worse than the padding.

And lest we not forget, in the same general respect, the guys like Wolf. The Conrail dispatchers have to plan their work around the assumed on time performance of RVL trains. However...that still doesn't excuse some of the overkill padding in some spots.

Like the observation that started this conversation. 22mins to go 1.8 miles??