Running Long-Hood Forward

What is the main purpose of running a locomotive long-hood forward? I caught a NS #7068 (with 5 freight cars) running long-hood forward at restricted around Hammond, IN last week. When are these moves common?

There are several reasons for running long hood forward:

Local freight movements may occur in areas where there are no wye facilities for turning the locomotive around, so it has to run one of the legs of its trip "backwards" or in other words, long hood forward, out of necessity.

NS has designated the long hood as the "front end" on many of its locomotives. So, the NS locomotive may have been operating "front end forward", even though it was the long hood.
Hint: Look of the capital letter "F" on one end of the locomotive's sill stripe. The "F" designates the front end of the locomotive.

ACLfan

To follow up on the NS comment; it was an old southern tradition to run the locomotive long hood forward, or backwards in this case. Both the Southern and N&W, predecessors to the NS, ran their diesels in this fashion in order to protect the crew from a collision, despite the poor visability. Most units were order with high hoods, from GP38's to SD45's. Even after the 1982 formation of NS, this practice continued with C39-8's, (not counting the 2 GE demos), C36-7's SD50's, SD60's, GP59's, C39-8E's, and B32-8's all being ordered with the long hood designated as front. Almost all units were equipped with bi-directional control stands. This practice continued until 1990, when NS began ordering C40-8's with single control stands and the short hood designated as front.

Erie, DL&W and EL tended to run their GP7s and -9s long-hood forward for the same reason. EL ordered the Alco Centuries, U-boats and GP35s to run short-hood forward for better visibility. However, some of their SD45s acquired during the Dereco era (i.e. ownership by N&W) had duak control stands to run in both directions. I have some spectacular pics in my EL books of SD45s running long-hood forward, or as the crews called it-"hammerhead" style...

Are there any speed restrictions for running long-hood forward as opposed to running a locomotive regularly?

F40 wrote:Are there any speed restrictions for running long-hood forward as opposed to running a locomotive regularly?

Nope.

-r

There is at least one railroad on which the crew reportedly absolutely positively !!REFUSES!! to run long-hood forward. Even for moves of short distances and two or three cars they use two engines. The old time engineers who ran articulated steam engines would split their sides laughing.


"Vote OTTO for sheriff - he'll lock 'em ALL up!"

You might be right about the old timers but they also had a head brakemen and a fireman with them. By the way I am an old timer and I just finished switching all night long with a road engine. It would be nice to have a full crew or at least management that understands the ramifications of their decisions. My support to any railroader who stands up to the companys dumb and unsafe practices.

[quote="Aji-tater"]There is at least one railroad on which the crew reportedly absolutely positively !!REFUSES!! to run long-hood forward. Even for moves of short distances and two or three cars they use two engines. The old time engineers who ran articulated steam engines would split their sides laughing.


Don't keep us in suspense!! What railroad are you referring to??

I mentioned that railroad as part of the discussion in general. Despite my screen name I don't feel it would serve any purpose to be specific here. Also no point in possibly getting my source in bad standing.

The steam engineers may have had a fireman and brakeman but the fireman was usually busy shoveling coal, at least on hand fired engines. The brakeman might have been a help to the engineer or he may have been riding the cars, riding a tender doghouse, or even asleep. And don't forget the early geeps, the ALCo switchers and RS units...all long hood forward. We all have seen lots of photos of single-unit trains running long hood front.

Whatever a railroad does is fine with me one engine or two. I just wonder what those guys would think if they went back to the older days and had to run like that as a matter of course. Personally I don't think there is anything dumb or unsafe about running long hood front. As for switching all night with a road unit if it was a desk control stand you have my simpathy for sure. The AAR stands are not too bad and in most cases not too much different from a switcher unit but if they're angled too far forward they can be a pain too if you are using hand signals and not radios.

Humm, dont really know where to go on this one. Must have been a crew that really never did some time on a switch engine i guess there Aji-tater?
westernrrtx? How do you run? You turn the seat sideways and try to look out the back window? A quote from the movie Mr. Mom--->"Your doing it wrong". I good way to tell if someone sucks is to change what they nomally do or have, and see how they react. If a guy cant adapt quickly, well then he sucks. I ran a switch engine (SD40-2) with the nose against the cars and on occasion switched with an AC motor. I was zipping around the yard just like always. Ive also ran longhood forward on the mainline and on the branches, i like it. Good deal!!!! something different today!!! is my attitude.

westernrrtx wrote:My support to any railroader who stands up to the companys dumb and unsafe practices.

I hope you really dont think like that, or voice your opinion to your managers about stuff like road engines as switch engines and running longhood forward. Guys that complain all the time paint a target on their back. First time they get caught doing something "unsafe" they slap the cuffs on. Plus there good "game" for the "big hunts". Pulling stuff out of service is a different thing, which no one ever does, switches and what not. Im the only guy ive ever saw sence i hired out who had the cojones to spike a switch. I always shove a plug in first so they cant just come by later after i've left and pull it by hand.

(UPRR Engineer must think I am stalking him....... ) I have a regular assigned engine, where I am at now, and for the last 90 days, I have run an ex-Southern GP-38 highhood, with long hood being the front. It's actually no big deal, on an engine built to run bi-directionally. The angle of the control stand is different, than that of a "conventional" cabbed engine. The view from the seat isn't actually that bad, unless you are going through a left hand curve, then you get an excellent view of the trees, fields, whatever. Running in reverse, or short hood forward, visibility is actually about the same, due to the high hood. I keep the door latched open, and it's almost like running a switcher, with the view of the platform, steps and pilot. Sliding the seat to one end of the control stand, or the other, also makes the handles readily accesible, as well as the speedo easier to see. Granted, it's made to do this, and it IS different on a loco set-up to run short hood forward, but it is not impossible. My only complaint about running a loco "backwards", is the speedo is not usually visible, from the position you sit, facing out the back door. Sometimes I will just sit facing the control stand, but eventually, your neck gets stiff, from being twisted to see where you are going. The NS has thoughtfully installed 2 speedos, on lots of their engines, so this is not a factor. One on the front cab wall, one on the rear.The seats do slide fore and aft, so positioning ones self in a comfortable seating position is not really to difficult. I would REFUSE, however, being told to operate a tabletop control stand engine in reverse, for any reason other than putting the power on the train, or putting the power away. I have, by MY choice, made short movements to go find a train, assist a train, etc., and I ran facing forward, using the side view mirror to see where I was going. (plus the extra eyes on the other side of the cab) I would not take one of these out, on a travelling switcher, dog-catcher, etc., under any circumstances. (MARK ME OFF SICK, I'M GOING HOME ) The railroads do it for economics, again. Why use two, when one will do ? Regards

GOLDEN-ARM wrote:Sometimes I will just sit facing the control stand, but eventually, your neck gets stiff, from being twisted to see where you are going.

No mirrors on this unit? If so, why not face the control stand and use the mirror. That's what many guys around here do when running long-hood forward on a yard job or local switchers. (GP40-2's)

I always like to hear what you have to say there buddy. lol

Really dude, refuse? Im kinda shocked to hear that you turn the seat and look out the back window with the kind of control stands we like. I eather look in the mirror or hang my head out the window steam engine style. I do the same with road power/desk top style. Same, but yet different we are there dude. I do alot of reverse moves/big shoves, sometimes we back a whole train up for 15 or 20 miles, on the main, and at the plants/branches. I always try to have my eyes on the guys if possible. Havent you ever noticed how much better the veiw is threw the mirror or with your head out the window? Looking out the back window, most of your range of vision is the engine doors, on left handed curves. Maybe i could show you a couple things about running there buddy. *laughs* Im kidding, kind of. That is pretty shocking, i didnt figure you to be like that.

The Downers Grove Local often runs long hood 1st. Due to the Wacky Congifiguration of the sidings.