Retired GP38AC's

Reading had 5 GP40-2s. Besides NORFOLK SOUTHERN 2881 is there a list of retired GP38ACs and when they were retired?

Hey NS fans,
I just got some conflicting info regarding the scrapped NS 2881!

We had a first-hand sighting of NS 2881, nee LV 310,
cut up in a gondola. Seems very reliable, and I have no reason to doubt it.

But I was just emailed this list:

http://www.altoonaworks.info/rebuilds/ns_56gp38-2.html

Which says NS 2881 did in fact go through the rebuild program and come out as the new NS 5655!

NS 2881 GP38AC -NS 5655 GP38-2 - Originally LV 310

So which is it then?!
WAs NS 2881 scrapped or not?

This is what I *think* the status of the four LV GP38AC's is right now:

LV 310 - NS 2881 - scrapped June 2006.

LV 311 - NS 2882 - rebuilt in 2003, in service as NS 5516.

LV 312 - NS 2883 - rebuilt in 2006, in service as NS 5627.

LV 313 - NS 2884 - Moved to Altoona 3/17/2006, hopefully to also be rebuilt!

But according to that rebuild list, all four have been rebuilt and are in service! Can anyone confirm the current status of 2881 and 2884?

thanks!
Scot

Scot, is it me, or is the NS 2882 the only loco not on that list? I see the others but not that one. I only see three LV locos listed,(2881, 2883 and 2884) and not the one in question, as being the "missing" unit. What do you see? Regards, Dave

GOLDEN-ARM wrote:Scot, is it me, or is the NS 2882 the only loco not on that list? I see the others but not that one. I only see three LV locos listed,(2881, 2883 and 2884) and not the one in question, as being the "missing" unit. What do you see? Regards, Dave

GA,
you are right, 2882 isnt on that list.
but..she was the first of the LV four to be rebuilt, back in 2003.
and that list is only 2005 and 2006.
so she isnt on the list because that list isnt *all* NS rebuilds, just recent ones.

LV 311 is alive and well!
She is now NS 5516.

Scot

(WHEW)

Glad to see you got the tags figured out, G-A! And you've apparently lost your job at the CAPS-LOCK FACTORY.

Glad to hear the LV units are alive and well. Now the question is, can Tom H. catch them in Sayre?

2881 was not scrapped. It was salvaged. As is the practice with the Norfolk Southern rebuild program, the cab, battery boxes, and short hood were tossed due to the asbestos insulation in the cab section. The remains will be the rebuilt 2881. The cab is indeed gone.

The 2881's cab section was sent over the hump at Allentown Yard a few weeks ago in a gondola for points unknown, but destiny certaint.

2884 I can't find anything on, but am certain will be rebuilt. 2912 is currently the last active roster ex-Con GP38. And in defense of the Altoonaworks.info creator/maintainer, the GP38-2/GP38-3 rebuild programs lists are denoted on the pages as a work in progress...

Well..In attempting to solve "The mystery of the scrapped LV 310"
I have weighed all the evidence, and come to a conclusion.

We have four sets of evidence.

1. A report of the scrapped NS 2881 in a Gondola.
NS number confirmed.
but! turns out it was only the cab and nose seen! not the entire loco.
I confirmed that with the spotter.

2. A report, with photos, of a field of Conrail GP38 cabs and noses.
Including NS 2881, with other NS loco cabs.

Both reports 1 and 2 assumed, and logically so, that the entire units were scrapped..I would assume the same thing! (and I did!
If you see a bunch of scrapped cab parts, its only natural to conclude the entire unit was scrapped..
but! in this case, it turns out this is very likely a false assumption!
because of evidence #3 and #4:

3. A list of NS units who are in-line to be rebuilt.
http://www.altoonaworks.info/rebuilds/ns_56gp38-2.html
That list shows NS2881/LV 310 as part of the rebuild program!

4. It is known that the NS GP38 rebuild program is replacing cabs and short hoods!

So..taking all this evidence togehter, I conclude that only the removed cabs and short-hoods of these units were seen, and the units themselves live-on and are being rebuilt!
NOT scrapped afterall!

*whew*!

thanks everyone!
Scot

FYI,
this is being discussed on three different forums:

LV forum: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26180

CR forum: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26649

NS forum: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1310

I originally posted this on the Conrail forum, but someone decided to move it over to here, so I'll repost it below...

On June 30, 2006 a friend and I headed south into the heart of
thoroughbred land to save the locomotive cab of atleast 1 Conrail
unit. When we arrived on scene however, the condition was worse then
we had hoped. We were able to capture 300 photos and saved many "parts" from various engines.

Photographic evidence supports the following Conrail units as
scrapped as of 6-30-06;

Conrail GP38AC 7656, LV 310 (PRR 2881)
Conrail GP38-2 7717 (PRR 2903)
Conrail GP38-2 7870 (PRR 2924)
Conrail GP38-2 7878 (PRR 2926)
Conrail GP38-2 7886 (PRR 2933)
Conrail GP38-2 7893 (PRR 2938)

Also noted were two Blue cabinet doors with handpainted "8079" on
them which would be present day PRR 5282. I doubt however that this
is such unit.

Additional photographic evidence gathered clearly shows two
additional Conrail GP38's scrapped, however it will require photos
taken before 6-30-06 to verify which units these are. The first 3
digits are 294, however the fourth digit was unable to be verified.
The number 2 however is of a different font from the other.

http://www.conrailcorp.com/scrapped.html for my photo essay

~Kris

Kristopher M Klemick
Conrail Enthusiast
Former Conrail Conductor
President, CONRAIL Historical Society, Inc
http://www.conrailcorp.com/crhs.html

CONRAIL Historical Society, Inc
222 South Main Street
Marysville, PA 17053

[email protected]

CONRAIL Historical Society, Inc. a 501 (c)(3) IRS recognized Non-Profit Historical Society that has been duly incorporated in PA.
_________________
Sincerely,

Kristopher M Klemick
Conrail Enthusiast
Former Conrail Conductor
President, CONRAIL Historical Society, Inc

conrail6055 wrote:Photographic evidence supports the following Conrail units as scrapped as of 6-30-06;

Conrail GP38AC 7656, LV 310 (PRR 2881)
Conrail GP38-2 7717 (PRR 2903)
Conrail GP38-2 7870 (PRR 2924)
Conrail GP38-2 7878 (PRR 2926)
Conrail GP38-2 7886 (PRR 2933)
Conrail GP38-2 7893 (PRR 2938)

Incorrect. They are photographic assumptions jumping to conclusions. These units have not been scrapped. The cab sections have been trashed due to asbestos and integrety issues. It was found to be cheaper to remove the forward cab sections and build new ones, than to remove the hazardous materials. Your own photographs are evidence of that fact. The units are being preped for rebuild in upcomming batches. Units are to recieve new cab and nose, air conditioning, -2 specs, AR10 alternators, and APU's.

NS5652 Prep for Rbld to GP38-2 JLS 7/06 (GP38 NS2924/CR7870/PC7870)
NS5654 Prep for Rbld to GP38-2 JLS 7/06 (GP38 NS2938/CR7893PC7893)
NS5655 Prep for Rbld to GP38-2 JLS 7/06 (GP38 NS2881/CR7656/LV310)
NS5656 Prep for Rbld to GP38-2 JLS 7/06 (GP38 NS2903/CR7717/PC7717)
NS5657 Prep for Rbld to GP38-2 JLS 7/06 (GP38 NS2933/CR7886/PC7886)
NS2926 for Rbld to GP38-2 JLS (Rd# Unassigned)

And pleanty more where that came from. Eight more GP38's and GP38AC's are assigned numbers and prep-ing to go in for reincarnation. Still awaiting direction, however, also NOT to be scrapped are 2909, 2910, 2918, 2919, 2920, 2924, 2934, 2943, 2945, 2949. The GP38-3 (GP50) rebuild program is in progress also. Sorry guys. Not scrapped!

Information care of www.altoonaworks.info and checked against private sources. 100% positive.

I will give you the same response I gave 1,500+ others on the Loconotes list. According to Webster, scrap (v) - break up, junk. If you ask me, these units have been broken up. I don't care if they're being rebuilt, the road numbers on those locomotives no longer exist under the english word scrapped. Those locomotives do not exist anymore, PARTS of them are being used to be rebuilt, but as far as I am concerned they no longer exist. Yeah the frame and prime mover may still be intact, but those units or Parts Of Those Units 7656, 7717, 7870, 7878, 7886 and 7893 were scrapped! whew...

~Kris

Yikes!

nah, sorry, but I dont buy the "parts=scrapped" theory.

If I replace both front fenders on my car, is it the same car?
or a totally different car?
If I replace the engine?..still the same car.

With these locos, frames, trucks, engines, longhoods, fuel tanks, everything *except* the cab and nose, is being retained.
Only the nose and cab is being replaced.
that isnt enough, IMO, to make them "all new, different" engines..
they are the same engines! just rebuilt with new cabs.
NOT scrapped!
not even remotely.

sure..there comes a point where if you replace enough, its hard to say its "original"..but these rebuilds arent even close to that point..

I have read with some classic car and antique airplane restorations, its possible to replace one part at a time, over many years, and eventually end up with EVERY part replaced! so that nothing is original.
even then..its still considered the original car.

The only thing that counts as "scrapped", when parts still remain, to me are slugs.
if only a frame, trucks, and a cut down long hood still exists,
not even a prime mover, I will concede its not the original engine.
That has happened with a few of the LV RS11's..
they still "exist" as slugs..but no one would say they are the actual, surviving engines. I count those engines as gone..only a few parts still remaining.

But in the case of LV 310 and her rebuilt siblings, they very much still exist.
not even close to "scrapped"..10% replaced parts, 90% original parts, does not equal scrapped.

Scot

So YOU'RE the guy behind NSlocos.com! I thank you, I have spent many, many hours on there. Keep up the good work. Maybe have a small page with details like airhorns for the different classes, to help us modelers out. Just a thought.

Edit- I typa the engluish gud.