Railroad Forums 

  • What if? (Fantasy Railroading)

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

Moderators: MEC407, NHN503

 #65747  by Indianaguy
 
Hi, My name is Joe and having grown up in the South Chicago-Northwest Indiana area when the trains were all here in the 60's and

70's I was afflicted by the bug early and in a big dose. I lived in R.I. and went to school there from 1980 to 88' (URI-Lived 100

yards from Kingston Station!) and became fascinated by the character and color of New England Railroads. In a small geographical

area it has something for everyone, from Crawford Notch to the New Haven electric zone. The sad part is the very quality that

brings endearment to the New England Lines also killed them. Short hauls, high taxes & terminal costs, massive passenger

responsibilities and a rapidly eroding freight base, running into the arms of truckers, knocked it dead. Like a fish out of water,

by the 60's, the whole regions railroad service was laying on it side gasping for every breath of air when only a return to water

solves the problem!
  • ............................WHAT IF?......................
Lets say its the early

50's; The future problems are looming on the horizon and are recognized; but the damage hasn't been done yet ...........AND

AMAZINGLY
............The Federal, State and Local Govt. are on the railroads side!!!.........Although the Interstate will be

built it is clear that without healthy railroads the Interstate will rapidly become a noisy, polluting parking lot. All levels

of government recognize that:
  • 1.)Taxes on real estate directly involved in right of way should more

    accurately reflect a level playing field with truckers and airlines. Tax abatements are granted.

  • 2.)Commuter and Passenger services are a necessity but should no longer be a direct burden on railroad

    finances. The decision has been made to provide 100% subsidy for these services. The only decision left open is should service be

    structured Metra/NJ Transit style or paid through direct subsidy to the railroads to be operated at no loss to them.

  • 3.) The ICC has come to its senses and has recognized the need for an "updating" in its outlook on

    railroad regulation. It has agreed that:
  • A.)A regional railroad merger plan similiar to the

    proposals considered in the 1920's that would bring together regional railroads to provide more efficent service recognizing that

    competition really exists between"different modes" of transportation rather than different providers of the "same

    mode"
    of transportation.
  • B.)Shipping rates should be deregulated to allow efficient direct

    competition with "other modes" of transportation.
  • C.)Rationalization (Abandonment) or

    Implementation (Construction) of services and right of way should reflect practicality and demand rather than litigation but

    keeping in mind that with concessions on right of way taxes and service subsidies this is not a permission to run to dispose of

    marginal services and lines without thought and future planning. Where everyones best interest is considered, responsible local

    operators may be brought in to maintain and improve the level of local services.
  • D.)In general; the

    governments position is this: Railroads should be given every break in the book to rebuild themselves into strong organizations

    that can meet the future unencombered by irrational demands to preserve and/or pay for unneeded services or be a public welfare

    agency (commuters).
Labor:
  • Recognizing that their future viability and employment is tied to the railroads health they

    are willing to be very flexable. By attrition, with state legeslative approval, they are willing to crew reductions, hour based

    instead of mileage based pay scales for operating crews. Goal is 3 man crews with job interchangability into other job descriptions

    during time of employee attrition as needed to support full employment.
Shippers:
  • 1.)Have

    embraced the flexability of trucking but have discovered that, when handled efficently, intermodal rail transportation of

    trucks on trips greater than 200 miles makes economic sense.
  • 2.)Prefer to work with railroads, a

    mode of transportation they are familiar with, but need to have their confidence restored in its dependability and ability to meet

    their changing needs.
The Public:
  • Wants updated, and cleaner transportation from the railroads with more convenient

    expanded scheduling. Consideration in freight route planning will be important to avoid conflict with passenger routes.
Wall

Street:
  • Is intrigued by this new found railroad opportunity and are up for the job of financing the whole affair.

    Liberally.
  • ..............................................................NOW THAT WE ARE IN RAILROAD HEAVEN.................................................................
The initial merger plan includes Bangor &

Aroostock, Grand Trunk plus Canadian lines in New England, Maine Central, Central of Vermont, St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County,

Rutland, Boston & Maine, New Haven (Poughkeepsee bridge intact) and Delaware & Hudson. The New York Central will contribute

the Boston & Albany but not Selkirk yard as well as trackage rights on the West Shore line with purchase option. To provide long

distance haulage to the area and decrease the terminal nature of the region also included are:Lehigh & Hudson

River, and Erie (not merged yet). The Lehigh Valley,

Lackawanna, Central of New Jersey and Susquehanna are being considered for inclusion into a possible "Penn Central" like

combination but nothing is cast in stone

yet.
  • .................................................................................THE QUESTIONS ARE..............................................................................
  • 1.)Is

    this a good railroad/route combination? What would your choices be?
  • 2.)Is it valuable to go as far

    west as Chicago?
  • 3.)Should you go further west? Rock Island? D&RGW? WP? Milwaukee? (Can you save

    the lost) etc.
  • 4.)What lines in New England would form your primary main lines? secondary lines?

    branch lines? abandoned lines?
  • 5.)What Abandonments would you take back? Which ones would you

    take back to move freight off heavy passerger lines?
  • 6.)What lines outside New England would form

    your primary main lines? secondary lines? branch lines? abandoned lines?
  • 7.)What Abandonments

    outside New England would you take back? Which ones would you take back to move freight off heavy passenger

    lines?
  • 8.)What lines, if any, would you spin off to shortline operators?

    Why?
  • 9.)Would you want suburban and long distance as well as major passenger line (Shore Line, etc)

    ownership & responsibility (with freight trackage rights) placed in the hands of govt. agencies (MBTA/Amtrak) or retain them for

    direct subsidy of losses?
  • 10.)What shops would you keep? abandon? sell to passenger agencies if

    applicable?
  • 11.)What yards would you keep? abandon? upgrade? downgrade? Make into hump yards?

    specialized facilities (intermodal hubs, etc.)?
  • 12.)What new facilities would you build for

    intermodal, loose car, passenger services? Where?
  • 13.)What long distance passenger services (if

    applicable) would you retain, discontinue, reinstate, introduce?
  • 14.)What freight services and

    routes would you promote, introduce, retain, discontinue, reinstate?
  • 15.)How would you operate it

    efficently? handle local freight? Through trains? Switching?
  • 16.)What questions, "perfect world"

    scenarios or conditions would you add or delete from this list?
  • 17.)How would you market it? What

    would the slogan on the side of your car be?
On a lighter note:
  • 1.)What does

    your railroad look like?
  • 2.)What would your color scheme look

    like?
  • 3.)What would your logo look like?
  • 4.)What (if applicable)

    would you name your passenger trains? special service freights?
  • 5.)Would you maintain a stable of

    "Heritage Equipment", "A steam department a la UP?"
  • 6.)What would your taste in motive power run

    to? Are you a GE man or GM man? Remember this is a "perfect world", if you want you can be an ALCOholic! Hell, in a perfect

    world you can buy the plant and save it too! Its in Schenectady and theoretically on line after all! I wonder if building your own

    locomotives would be an antitrust violation?
I know all this is pure fantasy but it makes interesting fodder for daydreams.

Think about what railroads would be like if common sense had prevailed? We might still have some of the quaintness. With todays

preservation consciousness think of what might still be around or even still in use? Imagine "Ski Trains" ,working and patronized

long distance trains and efficent, frequent freight service to all customers not just the unit train purchaser. So when your bored

at work, sitting in commuter traffic, milking the cows, or mowing the lawn (er...I mean....shoveling snow), Build your fantasy

railroad, rebuild New England to your liking, imagine it running, and working! But by all means, share it here! I'd love to know

what yours would look like, and operate like!!!

 #65859  by Steam
 
Basically you're describing Europe today!

 #66744  by XRails
 
I say skip any sort of merger and leave New England the way it was c1955-60. I think that mergers have really hurt railroads in the past 30 years because they eliminate competition. Don't stagnate, keep growing! What the gov't should do is take a cut of the highway funding and distribute it amongst the railroads based on trackage or total tonnage shipped. For passenger service, make a national agency responsible for schedule coordination, but leave it up to the individual roads to operate the services on gov't funds.

Now, if I may pose my own what if: About this time last year I participated in the Yale Model Congress, a simulation of the federal legislature. My bill was to take 20% of highway funding and give it to passenger rail services, with special attention to Amtrak. The bill also gave freight roads a reduction in the corporate income tax. It passed! What if it really had passed the real legislature? Here is my scenario:

Guilford breaks back down into the B&M and MEC due to poor management. Both return to their origional schemes.
-MEC
--Re-open entire Lower Road for freight and passenger traffic

BAR history including and beyond the Iron Roads merger never happened

Numerous commuter services are in place
-CDOT on the Inland Route NH --> Springfield. Trains 30 min apart on peak hours
-CDOT on the Valley Line Old Saybrook --> Hartford. 4 Trains each way daily
-CDOT on the Housatonic Line Norwalk --> Pittsfield. 2 trains daily
-Champlain Flyer returns in Burlington
-Ethan Allen extended to Burlington
-Downeaster extended down the Lower Road to Ellsworth/Bar Harbor. Overnight service begins on route in addition to regular Downeaster service (2 trains to Portland daily)
-Return of the Cape Codder (Amtrak)
--MBTA operates former NYNH&H Woods Hole Branch
-RIDOT/Amtrak service to Newport

How 'bout it?
 #67035  by Porter Sq
 
How about the NS rail link and service to Manchester and Concord NH. This is a big market that is untaped and has alot of potential.If the NS rail link is to ever happen make it HSR corridor with electrafaction all the way up to Manchester and have a reginal aiport shuttle serving Manchester Logan via the blue line from the central station and TF Green airport this would also help the airlines and people traveling a New England with the choice of where they want to land and witin in two hours be where they want to be.