Basically the presence of NS in New England is the big benefit. If you want to get cars out of New England you gotta go over CSX, Guilford or the D&H. Now NECR, VTR and very importantly P&W have direct access to NS. They can bypass CSX completely. Also with improved service comes more customers. I suspect up on the north side of town we will see NS units going to Waterville unless they are going to be maintained else where? At the least I think we'll see NS units into Portland. Those of you on the west end are very fortunate! This could possibly be the end of the "dark ages" Guilford.
Railroad Forums
Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion
- Pan Am Southern (webssite: https://panamsouthern.com ) is jointly-owned by CSX and Norfolk Southern, but operated by Genesee & Wyoming subsidiary Pittsburg & Shawmut dba Berkshire and Eastern,
Moderator: MEC407
l008com wrote:CN9634 wrote:also for the record, panamsouthern.com is not a registered domain, I.E. you could buy it for 2 dollars right now. Interesting.And when panam buys panamsouthern.net, you'll be out $2
Make an investment of ~$20 and get em all! Remember the guy who got pizza.com? .... I hardly think NS/PAR would pay millions for the name though, maybe sue ya for it!?
l008com wrote:BTW - the term is "CYBERSQUATING' and the courts have given the domain to legitimate businesses where the case is made that the original owner was 'speculating'.
CN9634 wrote:
also for the record, panamsouthern.com is not a registered domain, I.E. you could buy it for 2 dollars right now. Interesting.
And when panam buys panamsouthern.net, you'll be out $2
Make an investment of ~$20 and get em all! Remember the guy who got pizza.com? .... I hardly think NS/PAR would pay millions for the name though, maybe sue ya for it!?
Anyway, not to toss cold water on this discussion - within the PDF on the NS site the rate setting section is interesting. NS gets the intermodal & auto rates & PAR the rest within the PAS system.
PAR rate quotes in the past were quite high, even compared to a less desirable routing, which is why trying to attract non-auto/intermodal business to that route may be problematic. Perhaps NS will have a little influence in future rate quotes, but that remains to be seen.
What time does it currently take to get a Pan Am train between Mechanicville and Ayer today?Back in the 70s, NE-84/NE-87 (MEPO/POME) used to run Portland-Mechanicville without crew change.
As much as I like the classic BM Minuteman, it's a shame that it wasn't updated to the 21st century. (even BM had updated it by just using the minuteman silhouette.)
Heard some very interesting stuff yesterday after I found out about this announcement. I'm not famaliar at all with any track north of Binghamton, so I might have some locations and names wrong, but here goes. The major changes are planned to occur by Jan. 1, 2010. NS is going to build a intermodal facility in Mechanicsville(I think?) and I think another yard somewhere else. They are getting some big Ford contract from CSX. This traffic will move from New England south to Binghamton then West to Buffalo. Not sure if it will be one more train west or 2(I have heard another van/stack train for years now). Also in Buffalo they are going to expand the ramp facility in Bison yard and the 22K/23K will no longer terminate/originate there. They will go through the Tier also. Sorry I didn't really pay too much attention to the names up north.
CannaScrews wrote: courts have given the domain to legitimate businesses where the case is made that the original owner was 'speculating'.Yeah, I remember the guy who had registered the name of some mall they were building down south. They ended up suing him, and he ended up having to pay damages.
pablo wrote:Along the previously mentioned union line, would this be part of the reason for the large layoff recently? Is this so the new company is not beholden to the old contract?
Dave Becker
ST is still running the trains as they always have. Any change to that would constitute a buyout or a merger, and ST employees would then be subject to labor protections. Any recent layoffs would have nothing to do with this. Younger railroad workers get laid off all the time as traffic levels fluctuate.
From the NS pdf (with emphasis added for following questions):
"Who Will Operate the Patriot Corridor?"
Pan Am Southern will contract with Springfield Terminals (ST) to operate all facets of the railroad, including maintenance, pricing, management, train operations, and other railroad functions."
""Other Matters"
NS will not be able to directly serve customers on the route"
There must clearly be an advantage to NS with this agreement, else they wouldn't have entered into it with PAR. Still, I'm not sure I understand the full benefit as presented. "Over the road" times would certainly improve with the rebuilding of the route but if NS has no access to local customers, if (current) ST management is maintained, and if ST continues to be responsible for train operations, what is the net advantage, so to speak?
Is there a reasonable expectation of change on the part of PAR/ST for pick-up/delivery of cars to local consignees, development of future business, better (customer oriented) operation, and so forth? As I read the pdf "tickler," PAR and NS will share an equal partnership (50/50) in the proposed corridor. Why the hope that PAS (through ST management and operations) will begin doing things in a different way to generate increased local business, timely distribution of freight to consignees and so on?
One lives in hope but wonders if this is really the promised panacea for problems inherent in New England railroading. Thanks for your thoughts.
Bob
"Who Will Operate the Patriot Corridor?"
Pan Am Southern will contract with Springfield Terminals (ST) to operate all facets of the railroad, including maintenance, pricing, management, train operations, and other railroad functions."
""Other Matters"
NS will not be able to directly serve customers on the route"
There must clearly be an advantage to NS with this agreement, else they wouldn't have entered into it with PAR. Still, I'm not sure I understand the full benefit as presented. "Over the road" times would certainly improve with the rebuilding of the route but if NS has no access to local customers, if (current) ST management is maintained, and if ST continues to be responsible for train operations, what is the net advantage, so to speak?
Is there a reasonable expectation of change on the part of PAR/ST for pick-up/delivery of cars to local consignees, development of future business, better (customer oriented) operation, and so forth? As I read the pdf "tickler," PAR and NS will share an equal partnership (50/50) in the proposed corridor. Why the hope that PAS (through ST management and operations) will begin doing things in a different way to generate increased local business, timely distribution of freight to consignees and so on?
One lives in hope but wonders if this is really the promised panacea for problems inherent in New England railroading. Thanks for your thoughts.
Bob
One important line on page 9 of the presentation: "...customers will be required to add 'PAS' to their waybill routes..." This indicates that PAS will be considered a linehaul carrier and those stations served by PAS are "closed" stations, i.e., not open to direct service by other carriers, except as allowed under pre-existing or future special agreement.
This explains the statement that NS will not be able to directly serve any of the PAS stations/customers. Likewise, I would fully expect that PAR would similarly be prohibited from directly serving those same customers.
One can only hope that NS keeps a short rein on the management committee... 50% control ain't like 100% control!
Btw, I estimate that PAR shrinks further to ~650 route-miles (350-former MEC and 300-former BM). And a lot of those BM miles (say, ~100 miles) are vitually inactive MBTA trackage rights. Again, that's an estimate. To put it in perspective, the MEC BY ITSELF was over 800 route-miles when Guilford bought in!
This explains the statement that NS will not be able to directly serve any of the PAS stations/customers. Likewise, I would fully expect that PAR would similarly be prohibited from directly serving those same customers.
One can only hope that NS keeps a short rein on the management committee... 50% control ain't like 100% control!
Btw, I estimate that PAR shrinks further to ~650 route-miles (350-former MEC and 300-former BM). And a lot of those BM miles (say, ~100 miles) are vitually inactive MBTA trackage rights. Again, that's an estimate. To put it in perspective, the MEC BY ITSELF was over 800 route-miles when Guilford bought in!
"One can only hope that NS keeps a short rein on the management committee... 50% control ain't like 100% control!"
With the kind of money involved here, I'm willing to bet NS will make sure the right people are running the show. What's the possibility that Pan Am Southern is just the paperwork for NS to take over outright all together - why have to deal with the nitwits at Guilford to make their money? Fifty percent is just a down payment I think. I'm also willing to bet that CSX won't take this lying down either - although this what they deserve and in effect make CSX and NS near equals in the northeast. CSX may have the Mohawk, but I'm willing to bet as well NS can whip the B and M into shape enough with the right discipline to efficiently move business over to their side.
With the kind of money involved here, I'm willing to bet NS will make sure the right people are running the show. What's the possibility that Pan Am Southern is just the paperwork for NS to take over outright all together - why have to deal with the nitwits at Guilford to make their money? Fifty percent is just a down payment I think. I'm also willing to bet that CSX won't take this lying down either - although this what they deserve and in effect make CSX and NS near equals in the northeast. CSX may have the Mohawk, but I'm willing to bet as well NS can whip the B and M into shape enough with the right discipline to efficiently move business over to their side.
"does anyone know where the love of god goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
by Gordon Lightfoot
The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
by Gordon Lightfoot
It's kind of ironic but not totally surprising that the PAR web site is still silent on the proposed PAS transaction. Perhaps because they're privately held, PAR need not make an immediate declaration?
Q: of what value to NS is the Rotterdam Jct to Crescent segment of PAS? Is it simply part of the "we'll keep this CSX interchange point so as not to disrupt existing service offerings to PAS customers" argument?
Q: of what value to NS is the Rotterdam Jct to Crescent segment of PAS? Is it simply part of the "we'll keep this CSX interchange point so as not to disrupt existing service offerings to PAS customers" argument?