Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

Mmmm, that PDF is tasty indeed. This is an interesting development.

I'll ask the railfan question. Is this agreement going to change the prospects of seeing NS equipment/operations in the area? My initial impression is "no."

tj48 wrote:Couple of thoughts that came to mind;
1. Is this the 1st step of a total NS takeover of Pan Am?

Possibly, but that would be a long way off. Lots of railroads have joint operating agreements and other types of partnerships.

tj48 wrote:2. Will you will be seeing a large invasion of black NS engines in New England.

Whether or not it's a large invasion remains to be seen, but I suspect that we'll probably be seeing more NS locomotives than we do currently. The $140 million investment isn't just cash; it's a combination of cash and "other property" -- that could certainly include locomotives.

tj48 wrote:And will you see a large amount of Pan Am engines heading for the scrapper?

Doubtful. Part of the advantage of this partnership is that with NS helping out on the west end, it frees up Pan Am's resources for the east end.

CPF354 posted the main facts.

To add, the current Pan Am employees will still all be employed. In simple terms, Pan Am will be what the MBCR is to the MBTA.

Instead of the "Parent" railroad being MBTA, it will be Pan Am Southern. And instead of the company chose to do the actual work (like MBCR is to MBTA), it will be Pan Am. In effect, all Pan Am employees working in the yards, locals and road freights on the Pan Am Southern territory, they will be in effect contractors. Still employed, managed and paid by Pan Am.

As for other details (These are FACTS, not rumours).....

As for a working timeline for the big changes to start, NS's goal is to be able to go from Ayer to Mechanicville in 7 hours in 2 years or less. But it will take alot of time to do site work, order materials, place materials and hire crews. Do not expect double track from Westminster to Deerfield and beyond running 30 or more MPH till at least next summer. This summer the goal is the get the exsisting tracks up to at least 25 everywhere.

As for power, they have 15 SD40-2's coming from Helm soon. Within the next 90 days, probably sooner.

NV290 wrote:As for a working timeline for the big changes to start, NS's goal is to be able to go from Ayer to Mechanicville in 7 hours in 2 years or less. But it will take a lot of time to do site work, order materials, place materials and hire crews. Do not expect double track from Westminster to Deerfield and beyond running 30 or more MPH till at least next summer. This summer the goal is the get the existing tracks up to at least 25 everywhere.

What time does it currently take to get a Pan Am train between Mechanicville and Ayer today?

You're right, Otto, that is quite the "tasty" PDF.

And for them to be advertising a "secondary mainline" between White River Jct and New Haven CT can only spell good things for the NECR (WRJ-VT/MA line) and even better things for the Mass section of the "Conn River"... with better track, perhaps the dream of moving the Vermonter onto the Conn River in Mass is closer than it has been since 1986. Though it has seemed under the former GRS/PAR situation that the Conn River in Mass was going to be downgraded, perhaps this will be quite the "shot in the arm". Let's see how this all develops - could be VERY interesting!

BTW, I like that "Patriot Corridor" logo... slap that on the locos... would look good in maroon and gold! B&M for the 21st century.

Maybe the new and improvement intermodal service will be called Minuteman Service. What's old is new again.

Well first of all, compliments to all, you folks are a lot more civil on this forum than NY, NJ and Amtrak... maybe it's the geography...

Anyway, in reading this quickly, structurally this looks a lot like the NS agreement with KCS for the Meridian gateway across Mississippi. It appears that NS is satisfied with its ability to manage a partnership, as both its program with KSC and closer to New England, its relationship with WNYP, appear to be more than satisfactory.

bwparker1 wrote:What time does it currently take to get a Pan Am train between Mechanicville and Ayer today?

On average, latley it takes two crews 14-16 hours. But there are on occasion some trips that are just under 12 hours, but its very rare. In the past week though, about a half dozen more 10mph restrictions have popped up so that time will start getting longer. The major issue is the track. But traffic and power problems also have a big impact.

From Fitchburg to Mechanicville (MP330 to MP467), the fastest speed you have is 25, but much of it is 10.

Even if all they're able to do is get rid of all the 10 MPH speed restrictions, that would be a huge improvement. 25 MPH sounds slow in comparison to the speeds we drive in our automobiles, but for moving freight by rail, it's actually not bad... if it's consistent and you don't have to constantly slow down for speed restrictions and then try to get back up to speed.

The other big factor is dwell time in yards. If you can get in and out of the yard as quickly as possible, that makes an enormous difference. 40 MPH on the main doesn't do any good if the cars get stuck in the yard for days at a time.

From Fitchburg to Mechanicville (MP330 to MP467), the fastest speed you have is 25, but much of it is 10.

Ah, but once you get east of Fitchburg onto MBTA maintained track, freight train speed rises to 40mph. Of course that's only for the last 12 miles into Ayer

Why are they implying they'll have trackage rights to New Haven?

rb wrote:Why are they implying they'll have trackage rights to New Haven?

I believe this goes back quite a few years. The B & M actually operated a
train to and from New Haven to someplace in Maine but it was not overly
successful and was dropped.
Noel Weaver

I'm very confused here. NS puts in tons of money, PanAm puts in the track they already own, and they 'run' the service. What does NS get out of all this???

l008com wrote:I'm very confused here. NS puts in tons of money, PanAm puts in the track they already own, and they 'run' the service. What does NS get out of all this???

They get new customers and access to new locations and therefore the potential for additional profit. This really is a huge win for NS, it'll just take a couple of years for them to get back into the black from their expenditures.

[tangent]
As a slight aside, if they are planning on bringing the speeds from Fitchburg west up to better levels could that mean a possible revival of the Gardner MBTA run as the MBTA won't have to spend the money to upgrade the track?
[/tangent]

Hoopyfrood wrote:

l008com wrote:I'm very confused here. NS puts in tons of money, PanAm puts in the track they already own, and they 'run' the service. What does NS get out of all this???

They get new customers and access to new locations and therefore the potential for additional profit. This really is a huge win for NS, it'll just take a couple of years for them to get back into the black from their expenditures.

[tangent]
As a slight aside, if they are planning on bringing the speeds from Fitchburg west up to better levels could that mean a possible revival of the Gardner MBTA run as the MBTA won't have to spend the money to upgrade the track?
[/tangent]

New customers and access to new locations... But didn't NS already have rights running through this stretch?