CR on the Southern Secondary

Thanks, Harry.

I can only add the Southern and Freehold secondarys connect in Farmingdale, AND DDRR is pledging a half million dollars or thereabouts as their part to secure the grant. That is not charity! They're getting something out of it.

I can only add that CRSA is getting smaller; I'm sure Conrail, CSX, and NS would like to see it disappear, and DDRR has already assumed some operations in North Jersey. There may or may not be something similar happening in Michigan. I have no way of knowing. I'm sure all 3 entities would be happy with a class III operation taking over.

Tanker1497 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:46 pm

GSC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:31 pm Where was the Phoenix Powder Works mentioned in video a page or two back? The narrator keeps saying he's walking east, but from where? Thanks.

Its located RR East of Farmingdale. Its a nice hike up the tracks and if you have a good RR eye you can see remnents of the siding, and follow that back into the woods. If I remember he gets a little lost in the video I posted. Its a better hike before the ticks get out and you need to be quite mobile. As I said I found a Rare Battery Rest, know now of only a few to exsist. I'm confident there are more as there should of be 8 per battery bank and the box held lots of wet batteries. Its the CD35 undinbosed version shown in link.
https://glassian.org/Battery/American/index.html

I'm presuming the location is between Main St. and Megill Rd.?

My legs ain't what they used to be, so I doubt I'll be hoofing it anytime soon.

In the front office at Allaire State Park, there is a big aerial photo of the F'dale / Howell area. It's twenty years old or more, and you can see what had been a wye east of the tracks along that section. Google maps today don't show any trace of it, Nature has reclaimed it, so I'm figuring that was where the siding in question was.

If it had ever happened, this was roughly where a connection from F'dale to Neptune was planned if the New Egypt & Farmingdale RR was built according to the second amendment to the NE&F charter. (The NE&F was the section built between Long Branch and Belmar, absorbed into the NY&LB. Railroad history can be bewildering)

If and when the Freehold-to-F'dale section is reopened and freight is taken off the NJCL, imagine the grumblings along the way when long trains come through town. Figure in whatever goes to the Freehold area, ExTech and Bel Ray and Brick Recycling, plus up to 18-19 cars for Lakewood. What fun that will be at the Main St. crossing in Freehold, say about 5 in the afternoon.

R&DB wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:58 am @Tanker;

Somebody educate me on the Freehold and Southern?

The Freehold Industrial Track (Freehold Secondary) runs from the wye in Jamesburg to Farmingdale. The section from Oakerson Rd. to Farmingdale is currently out of service.
The Southern Secondary runs from Red Bank to Lakehurst. The portion below the Cross St. siding is currently out of service.
Both are owned by NJ DoT and currently operated by Conrail Shared Assets Operations.
No one here knows why the grant went to DDRR (a subsidiary of C&D RR). The grant does state the work will be in Middlesex, Monmouth, Ocean Counties and specifically calls out Howell Township. And as CharlieL stated it says Phase 1, so there's more to come.
Both lines pass through Howell. The Freehold line is in both Monmouth and Middlesex. The Southern is in Monmouth and Ocean. The item in the grant calling for connecting F&S can only mean the out of service section of the FIT.
The work in Ocean County cannot be determined but may be the OOS section to Lakehurst so they can use the longer siding there. (the recent derailment at Cross St. siding comes to mind) Another Ocean Cty. work site maybe the TRIT.
The real question is why DDRR?
All of this is speculation. Until we can get information from the DoT we'll just have to wait and see what develops.

All this info I have known since about 1974! I just realized that the previous post, that said Freehold and Southern isn't a railroad I missed in the last 47 years! The post lacked content as in Southern Secondary aand Freehold Secondary. I guess I need to learn everyones shorthand. I do feel a bit stupid that I could not connect the dots after being on this page since 2009 and other pages that were terminated about the same line.

GSC wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:02 pm

Tanker1497 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:46 pm

GSC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:31 pm Where was the Phoenix Powder Works mentioned in video a page or two back? The narrator keeps saying he's walking east, but from where? Thanks.

Its located RR East of Farmingdale. Its a nice hike up the tracks and if you have a good RR eye you can see remnents of the siding, and follow that back into the woods. If I remember he gets a little lost in the video I posted. Its a better hike before the ticks get out and you need to be quite mobile. As I said I found a Rare Battery Rest, know now of only a few to exsist. I'm confident there are more as there should of be 8 per battery bank and the box held lots of wet batteries. Its the CD35 undinbosed version shown in link.
https://glassian.org/Battery/American/index.html

I'm presuming the location is between Main St. and Megill Rd.?

My legs ain't what they used to be, so I doubt I'll be hoofing it anytime soon.

In the front office at Allaire State Park, there is a big aerial photo of the F'dale / Howell area. It's twenty years old or more, and you can see what had been a wye east of the tracks along that section. Google maps today don't show any trace of it, Nature has reclaimed it, so I'm figuring that was where the siding in question was.

If it had ever happened, this was roughly where a connection from F'dale to Neptune was planned if the New Egypt & Farmingdale RR was built according to the second amendment to the NE&F charter. (The NE&F was the section built between Long Branch and Belmar, absorbed into the NY&LB. Railroad history can be bewildering)

If and when the Freehold-to-F'dale section is reopened and freight is taken off the NJCL, imagine the grumblings along the way when long trains come through town. Figure in whatever goes to the Freehold area, ExTech and Bel Ray and Brick Recycling, plus up to 18-19 cars for Lakewood. What fun that will be at the Main St. crossing in Freehold, say about 5 in the afternoon.

Disreguard my info I might have giving you bad info. I do alot of Metal detecting and bottle dump digging since I was 17 I'm now 62 and I would need to look at my notes. Sorry

@CharlieL If CSX has any say in this then I can assure you they will try to keep the smaller customers and carload traffic around here. They have gotten rid of stuff like that in the past and it came back to bite them in the rear very hard.

NS couldn’t care less about anything that isn’t intermodal at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go under in the future.

@ GSC;
Gary, the wye you saw in the photo at Allaire SP went to a long siding for a gravel mine by route 34 roughly where NJ Sand and Gravel is today. You can find it using Historic Aerials. I believe it was in use in the 1920s - 1930s.
I don't know exactly where the powder works was, but most likely closer to Megill Rd. near Pree Swamp Brook.

CharlieL wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:30 am I can only add that CRSA is getting smaller; I'm sure Conrail, CSX, and NS would like to see it disappear, and DDRR has already assumed some operations in North Jersey. There may or may not be something similar happening in Michigan. I have no way of knowing. I'm sure all 3 entities would be happy with a class III operation taking over.

DDRR has taken over the freight work on several NJT lines in North Jersey, so the State DoT already has a working relationship with them and perhaps NJT/DoT will be happy too.

DDRR is known for flipping unprofitable lines into lucrative projects. Obviously, the Southern and Freehold are in an area that is rich in population and local industries, with the potential to expand operations further; as said before, if the FIT is expanded to Farmingdale, that means more customers on the Freehold-Red Bank section can get carloads not allowed by NJT.
As someone said before, this is "Phase 1." Phase 2 could be redoing the entire track from Farmingdale to Lakehurst, and I would not be surprised if somewhere down the line they try to get Woodmansie to Winslow back online, as CRSA has a yard in Camden.
As for someone saying people would complain about the long trains, there have been longer trains decades ago and I'm sure people would get used to it at some point, especially if trains didn't come through around rush hour (mid day to late night).
My $.02 is that this could lead to MOM at some point hopefully, since if a private company takes on most of the revitalization, NJT could jump in at some point. Maybe even if Winslow is re-connected, we could see proper NYC-AC service

I welcome DDRR if it means more frequent trains, fewer trucks on the roads, more jobs, and less crappy track

Maybe even if Winslow is re-connected, we could see proper NYC-AC service

The ACES route was the FASTEST.
That was beaten to death over and over and over somewhere on RAILROAD.NET.
And the "Blue Comet" route is NOT even significantly shorter.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:33 pm @CharlieL If CSX has any say in this then I can assure you they will try to keep the smaller customers and carload traffic around here. They have gotten rid of stuff like that in the past and it came back to bite them in the rear very hard.

NS couldn’t care less about anything that isn’t intermodal at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go under in the future.

Not what I was implying. CSX and NS support CRSA with equipment; I'm sure both of them would be happy to stop doing that.

1+1≠478

So much mental gymnastics here when the answers are staring you in the face.

Watch for an STB filling. CRSA is looking to spin off less profitable lines. Reactivating disused lines allows a future operator to access their new lines without the need for costly cab signal and PTC apparatus. You've already been told who, just look.

Finally, the idea of sand being used for construction anywhere within 100 miles is a pipe dream pushed by charlatans. Private parties and businesses are free to spend their money as they see fit. Clearing a disused line does not herald a significant, or minor, increase in traffic. The property owner may simply want to play an expensive prank. That is as likely as anything I've seen here, and considering the players, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything.

Now feel free to argue how I'm wrong all you want, but while you're wasting your electrons, trains still won't be moving in some places, and new operators will be moving in in others. Just wait and see.

Here’s some more pictures of what’s being done at the Route 72 bridge. There’s a sign on it that says NJ Transit now. The most recent pictures are towards the top.

There’s also pictures of the Seashore Lines track and that has to do with a recent inspection, which I’ll talk more about on the Seashore Lines freight topic.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ypcT9cXHZBcV1nsb6

Charlatans: A person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill; a fraud.
I needed to look it up.LOL!

NS1
"The property owner may simply want to play an expensive prank. That is as likely as anything I've seen here, and considering the players, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything."

Funny you say this. When I had a contact at Clayton a guy that was very close to Danny Clayton, once said to me, the joke around Clayton Yard was Danny wanted a bigger train set and Daddy bought him the 13.2 miles of the southern.
That man has since passed away and any real info I received is gone. It must be 10 years now.
Was that fact or fiction?