P42 - Is There Life After Amtrak?

CSRR573 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:42 am As someone who works on these things, I agree with Railjunkie. However I will say Id rather work on a P42 any day of the week then work on a ACS and deal with the Siemens "techs".

Was looking through the Charger or whatever its called manual on the trusty I Pad. I have come to the conclusion we have finally over engineered a diesel locomotive. Just give me a throttle, brakes, how to shut down the HEP, and a few other necessities and I'm good. That thing is like flying the fooking space shuttle. I know the shop guys are not looking forward to it.
Albany is so good at keeping GEs running maybe I get lucky and never see this new stuff before I pull the pin.

The Charger is just a dieselized acs. Weve had to adjust the minimum wheel thickness on the acs fleet because Siemens has a wheel shortage at the moment. I was told Boston was supposed to have the chargers by now but this is amtrak after all, so im shooting for 2030 before we get them. Hell our cabbages are better then the siemens junk.

The reports I note here regarding the "quality" of Siemens equipment, make me wonder the next time "Doc" gives me a "ticket to ride The MRI Express" will I board it if I'm looking at a Siemens?

Last time I took such a ride during '12, it was a GE.

Overseas, nothing has come to my attention about unreliability of Siemens railroad products (they've always worked for me). Both the DB and OBB have kind of "coupled their trains" to such (the private sector operator, Westbahn, has "coupled" to Stadtler).

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:48 am

CSRR573 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:42 am As someone who works on these things, I agree with Railjunkie. However I will say Id rather work on a P42 any day of the week then work on a ACS and deal with the Siemens "techs".

Was looking through the Charger or whatever its called manual on the trusty I Pad. I have come to the conclusion we have finally over engineered a diesel locomotive. Just give me a throttle, brakes, how to shut down the HEP, and a few other necessities and I'm good. That thing is like flying the fooking space shuttle. I know the shop guys are not looking forward to it.
Albany is so good at keeping GEs running maybe I get lucky and never see this new stuff before I pull the pin.

I was just thinking the same thing yesterday as I browsed the “familiarization presentation.” When these things break down, we will have no way over the road of getting them going again with all of the computer crap in them.

8th Notch wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 6:56 am I was just thinking the same thing yesterday as I browsed the “familiarization presentation.” When these things break down, we will have no way over the road of getting them going again with all of the computer crap in them.

Any engine should not need an old 486 or Pentium era laptop to fix a "fatal" fault. It should have a failsafe operational mode where everything is manual.

Still, watch that they put a synthetic intelligence in the engine. Someone's going to put a taxi cab SI into a Light Rail module and then shove it into a passenger train engine, and then some software engineer will have to tell said SI on how to shut down the train engine because it panicked and refused to do anything. Mark my words...

(Yes, I did a scene on that in my sequel novel as an example of sheer stupidity)

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 8:09 am Any engine should not need an old 486 or Pentium era laptop to fix a "fatal" fault

Off topic I know, but Mr. Wolf, what is so "dated" about a Pentium processor?

That's what my '14 vintage W10 Dell desktop has. It does everything I want, so why replace it - well, at least until Mr. Gates says he no longer supports W10.

I have no idea what's inside my Samsung G-9; all I know the battery remains strong and, otherwise, it works (could care less whether it is 4 or 5G).

I have neither a tablet nor laptop.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 8:09 am

8th Notch wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 6:56 am I was just thinking the same thing yesterday as I browsed the “familiarization presentation.” When these things break down, we will have no way over the road of getting them going again with all of the computer crap in them.

Any engine should not need an old 486 or Pentium era laptop to fix a "fatal" fault. It should have a failsafe operational mode where everything is manual.

Still, watch that they put a synthetic intelligence in the engine. Someone's going to put a taxi cab SI into a Light Rail module and then shove it into a passenger train engine, and then some software engineer will have to tell said SI on how to shut down the train engine because it panicked and refused to do anything. Mark my words...

(Yes, I did a scene on that in my sequel novel as an example of sheer stupidity)

I'm getting flaskbacks of rebooting a Hippo at Odenton, for one of the MARC "helltrains".
Do the MPI locomotives have the same over reliance on software?

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:51 am

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 8:09 am Any engine should not need an old 486 or Pentium era laptop to fix a "fatal" fault

Off topic I know, but Mr. Wolf, what is so "dated" about a Pentium processor?

That's what my '14 vintage W10 Dell desktop has. It does everything I want, so why replace it - well, at least until Mr. Gates says he no longer supports W10.

I have no idea what's inside my Samsung G-9; all I know the battery remains strong and, otherwise, it works (could care less whether it is 4 or 5G).

I have neither a tablet nor laptop.

You're probably talking about the more recent Pentium processors. For laptops, that's the Pentium-M series that got turned into the Core series and I'm going to stop myself because I will talk *all day* over that. (Your phone doesn't use the same class of processor)

That said, try finding vintage laptops with the right ports and such to actually run the software used to talk to those trains and fix CPU issues inside of them. And if you can't run it on a more modern OS or a different OS... then what you have is a several thousand ton paperweight.

That's why I'd like not only a manual mode on these engines, but also all source code for engine control and interfacing goes into escrow. If the company that makes those engines goes bust, the escrow ensures a third party can pick up the pieces without too much effort.

GBN,

Pentium technology is a quarter century old. It can no longer handle modern operating systems, let alone software.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:42 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:51 am

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 8:09 am Any engine should not need an old 486 or Pentium era laptop to fix a "fatal" fault

Off topic I know, but Mr. Wolf, what is so "dated" about a Pentium processor?

That's what my '14 vintage W10 Dell desktop has. It does everything I want, so why replace it - well, at least until Mr. Gates says he no longer supports W10.

I have no idea what's inside my Samsung G-9; all I know the battery remains strong and, otherwise, it works (could care less whether it is 4 or 5G).

I have neither a tablet nor laptop.

You're probably talking about the more recent Pentium processors. For laptops, that's the Pentium-M series that got turned into the Core series and I'm going to stop myself because I will talk *all day* over that. (Your phone doesn't use the same class of processor)

That said, try finding vintage laptops with the right ports and such to actually run the software used to talk to those trains and fix CPU issues inside of them. And if you can't run it on a more modern OS or a different OS... then what you have is a several thousand ton paperweight.

That's why I'd like not only a manual mode on these engines, but also all source code for engine control and interfacing goes into escrow. If the company that makes those engines goes bust, the escrow ensures a third party can pick up the pieces without too much effort.

The shortline/ heritage market will be hosed, if they can't troubleshoot the locomotives.

Whoops, Guess what. It is an Intel Core 15 vPro. Beyond that, "it works".

I bought it during '14.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 3:40 pm Whoops, Guess what. It is an Intel Core 15 vPro. Beyond that, "it works".

I bought it during '14.

In the tech circles I'm in, we use a program called CPU-Z from CPUID that asks the CPU what it is. Ether way, keep it dusted, repaste the CPU and GPU cards every few years, you're good to go.

That said, I'd rather have the source code open or in escrow for these engines, so at least we'll still be able to talk to them vs declaring the whole thing as scrap.

Mr. Wolf, "I haven't the vaguest" of what's being addressed. So long as tomorrow morning when this 82yo "bod" lumbers upstairs to the office, and the desktop "boots" up, I'm happy.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:01 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 3:40 pm Whoops, Guess what. It is an Intel Core 15 vPro. Beyond that, "it works".

I bought it during '14.

In the tech circles I'm in, we use a program called CPU-Z from CPUID that asks the CPU what it is. Ether way, keep it dusted, repaste the CPU and GPU cards every few years, you're good to go.

That said, I'd rather have the source code open or in escrow for these engines, so at least we'll still be able to talk to them vs declaring the whole thing as scrap.

Now I have to wonder if any locomotives ever ran CP m,
Or what they run,overseas.
I agree, I wonder what Brookville, Knoxville, or other manufacturers use, and what clients would do with software support if they went under.

rallyrabbit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:21 pm I was thinking about, could these be used in places like Peru given the smaller nature of them for clearing tunnel as opposed to the size of freight diesels now.

I take it the chances of showing up on some thrifty shortline is near to none.

Could the old rebuilt F40 outlast the P42? The rebuilt/repainted on Music City Star seem to work fine. Could last another 10+ years in commuter service?