P42 - Is There Life After Amtrak?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:06 am

TurningOfTheWheel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:47 pm Metra is an unlikely destination. They've recently rebuilt all their F40s, they have the SD70MAC conversions coming in the next couple of years with options for more, and they're looking to rebuild the F59 fleet they got from Amtrak/GO.

What's the fuel consumption on the F40's vs the P42's/P40's? Wikipedia claims it s lower on the P-series.

I remember when the Genesis debuted ( man I feel old), Amtrak was stating fuel savings of 20-25 percent over the then beloved F40.

The Jury is currently out on the first P40 that returned from Beech Grove rebuild for ConnDOT. If this is a successful program and can be ported from the P40 to P42, Commuter agencies may be more willing to fill out rosters with rebuilt units verses the current "run hard and put away wet".

Amtrak will most likely hang onto some of the P42's given the problems with the state owned Chargers. I could also see some commuter agencies grabbing some P42's once Amtrak starts selling the operable ones. As far as upgrading them to Evolution engines, Amtrak and GE looked into upgrading them to Evolution AC locomotives. They were going to be called EP42AC's or something like that. However, the EVO prime movers won't fit in the P42 carbody so it is impossible to do without re-engineering the prime mover.

Hard to see VIA taking P42s, when their own P42s seem a more logical disposal on the arrival of their SCB-40s than the more recently rebuilt F40PHs. Why keep three sets of parts around if you can have two? I guess some of those parts could be retained in MMC/TMC for Maple Leaf/Adirondack/extended Vermonter if that even happens, for as long as those services retain P42s.

My assumption was that they were more likely to be parted out for their electronics, since the limited supply and lack of third party market has been commented on here in the past.

Would Amtrak P42s be a good candidate for NPCU/APCU, especially on routes where they were already fitted with the same PTC equipment?

dowlingm wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 11:08 amWould Amtrak P42s be a good candidate for NPCU/APCU, especially on routes where they were already fitted with the same PTC equipment?

This has been litigated several times before but you can't really make cabbages out of the P42s; you can't cut a hole for a door in the side of the monocoque body without compromising the structural integrity of the whole carbody. They're built very differently from the F40s, which are/were essentially a box on a frame. And Chargers have such a lower fuel consumption/cleaner burn than the P42s that it doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense to keep them as HEP/cab units either.

TurningOfTheWheel wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 5:37 pm This has been litigated several times before but you can't really make cabbages out of the P42s; you can't cut a hole for a door in the side of the monocoque body without compromising the structural integrity of the whole carbody. They're built very differently from the F40s, which are/were essentially a box on a frame. And Chargers have such a lower fuel consumption/cleaner burn than the P42s that it doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense to keep them as HEP/cab units either.

What would be cheaper in the long haul, then? Buy a Charger or rebuild a P42?

dowlingm wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 11:08 am Hard to see VIA taking P42s, when their own P42s seem a more logical disposal on the arrival of their SCB-40s than the more recently rebuilt F40PHs. Why keep three sets of parts around if you can have two? I guess some of those parts could be retained in MMC/TMC for Maple Leaf/Adirondack/extended Vermonter if that even happens, for as long as those services retain P42s.

My assumption was that they were more likely to be parted out for their electronics, since the limited supply and lack of third party market has been commented on here in the past.

Would Amtrak P42s be a good candidate for NPCU/APCU, especially on routes where they were already fitted with the same PTC equipment?

Doubtful, since the next batch of single level car trainsets will include cab cars.

I was thinking about, could these be used in places like Peru given the smaller nature of them for clearing tunnel as opposed to the size of freight diesels now.

rallyrabbit wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:21 pm I was thinking about, could these be used in places like Peru given the smaller nature of them for clearing tunnel as opposed to the size of freight diesels now.

Only if a deal that includes shipping them, repair parts, initial term maintenance AND translation of the GE manuals into Spanish can be negotiated. Remember these units are high mileage now.

Some of NJT's U34s did make it to Mexico and Brazil in the late 90s.

Mexico is easier than Peru. Locomotives can travel on their own wheels the entire trip.

As someone who runs these things on the regular, I can say they have been ridden hard, put away wet, and not kept up well. With GE not in the game any longer its onto the after market for rehabbed, refurbished or cheaply made Chinese knock offs for parts and chips. They can be very cantankerous, finicky, electrical nightmare, and a general operational PIA. That's on a good day. The Rennselaer shop does a pretty remarkable job rebuilding these things and keeping them road worthy given the above handicap. Exporting something this worn out to a foreign country IMHO would not be something Amtrak should consider. Better to let them be used for parts to keep others running and when their time comes meet the scrappers torch.

As someone who works on these things, I agree with Railjunkie. However I will say Id rather work on a P42 any day of the week then work on a ACS and deal with the Siemens "techs".

What is the lead time these days for ordering a new locomotive? Also, P42 might be a way to avoid Tier IV emission standards and sticker shock due to inflation and high interest rates. The MBTA, for example, has been rehabbing equipment in recent years due to their lack of planning & failure to order new equipment. If transit agencies keep adding new Commuter Rail service, all at the same time, there could be equipment shortages in only a few years.