North Coast Hiawatha - Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority (BSPRA)

In other words, Amtrak is letting them down gently...

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:53 am

markhb wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:03 pm What are they thinking for endpoints of the regional service?

In the news article recently linked above,
"The Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority is looking to restore the route, though other connections could be made along the way, including a route between Salt Lake City and Butte, and another between Denver and Billings."

I believe the Big Sky PRA is still dreaming for a long distance train, but I do not think Montana can afford to do so by themselves. Which is the point the Amtrak manager was trying to make, Montana needs to find financial partners and decide upon a regional service they wish to implement.

Thanks. I think one of the issues they have is that it's a long, comparatively isolated stretch... if they just go from Billings to Missoula to capture what I think is most Montanans, then it doesn't connect to anything else at all. If they extend to Sand Point, ID in the West and Williston, ND in the East, then they can connect to the Builder at either end (which also can draw potential riders bound for Yellowstone) but they've added hundreds of miles of mountains and cattle and very few potential riders en route. The side route to Denver? Again, huge distance, few people until you get to Cheyenne. The route to Salt Lake at least goes by Idaho Falls and Pocatello but Butte is off of the cross-state route (it's an either/or with Helena that would require a line be completely rebuilt).

Mark did you get east and west swapped ? You can edit

If they extend to Sand Point, ID in the East and Williston, ND in the West, then they can connect to the Builder at either end

Oops... Thanks! Corrected.

eolesen wrote:In other words, Amtrak is letting them down gently...

I don't think so as that would imply the stakeholders in Montana are totally unaware of the funding formulas. I highly doubt that's the case.

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Passenger rail push across southern MT poised for funding as support grows

In June, Sen. Jon Tester added an amendment to the Surface Transportation Act to study the restoration of long-distance passenger rail routes that have been discontinued.

The amendment includes language that puts former routes in the rural West, including the North Coast Hiawatha across southern Montana and the Pioneer route, which once connect Salt Lake City to Seattle, at the front of those studies.

https://www.ktvq.com/news/montana-news/ ... port-grows

markhb wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:34 am I think one of the issues they have is that it's a long, comparatively isolated stretch... if they just go from Billings to Missoula to capture what I think is most Montanans, then it doesn't connect to anything else at all. If they extend to Sand Point, ID in the West and Williston, ND in the East, then they can connect to the Builder at either end (which also can draw potential riders bound for Yellowstone) but they've added hundreds of miles of mountains and cattle and very few potential riders en route.

On the plus side, using the MRL/former NP does pass through more communities of size than the current ex-GN Empire Builder route. Missoula, Helena, Bozeman, Billings - any one of these cities is equivalent to the sum of the majority of stops on the Empire Builder line, whose only significant stop is Whitefish (thanks to the populations of its nearby but non-Amtrak worthy city of Columbia Falls and the much larger but 15 miles off the mainline city of Kalispell). The Empire Builder merely has Glacier Park as a destination in Montana, the southern route would offer many more opportunities, of course Yellowstone Park.

The North Coast Hiawatha route also runs closer to tourist destinations like Yellowstone, Big Sky etc..

https://www.yakimaherald.com/news/local ... 2.amp.html

...
He is hopeful the federal study could be a step toward restoring passenger rail service to Yakima, Toppenish, Ellensburg and elsewhere — cities that have been without it for more than 40 years.

“With this study, (the railroad administration) is attempting to measure the amount of state, county and local interest in restoring passenger rail routes,” Wirt wrote in an email. “If we do not get involved in the FRA study now, passenger rail service to Yakima and Central Washington may not be included.”
...
Yakima and Toppenish previously had passenger rail service over these tracks as part of Amtrak’s North Coast Hiawatha route (through 1979) and briefly via the Amtrak Empire Builder route, before the latter was rerouted over Stevens Pass in October 1981, Wirt said.

In recent years, All Aboard Washington and other regional agencies, including the Benton-Franklin, Kittitas Valley and Yakima Valley Conference of Governments, have urged the Washington State Department of Transportation to seek federal funding for a Spokane-to-Seattle passenger rail route that would pass through these areas.
...

“The report determined that long journey times, low ridership projections and high costs of construction do not make this route financially or logistically viable,” Pate concluded.

On the western end of the route there are 2 problematic segments that would be very hard to deal with. The route through Stampede Pass is curvy, mostly single tracked and unsignaled. Even with an unlimited pot of money for reconstruction, this route would still be very slow. Seattle to Yakima is about a 2.5 hour drive; I don't think a train could make the trip in less than 4 hours. There are better places to spend money on rail upgrades than restoring Stampede Pass for passenger rail service.

The segment between Missoula and Spokane also has many of the same problems. It's about 3 hours to drive and I doubt a train would be able to make the trip in less than 5 hours. There has been talk of running a passenger train between Missoula and Billings. That would be much more sensible and, at one time, Montana Rail Link was open to the idea.

Lets muck it up. Spokane - Seattle. Get a bucket load of money and rebuild the Milwaukee line. Allow BNSF trackage rights with severe restrictions. No freight less than 4 hours ahead of passenger train or have to follow passenger trains with holding sidings when cannot meet those restrictions. Short trains, high HP per trailing tons, no Haz Mat Maybe even electrify ?

That gives the important needed third crossing.

Stampede Pass would be difficult; the old Milwaukee Road line over Snoqualmie Pass would be impossible! Most of it is very popular hiking and biking trails now. It also bypassed Yakima and the Tri-Cities which would lower ridership even more.

I highly recommend taking a hike or biking through the old Snoqualmie Tunnel on the Iron Horse Trail. It's a little over 2 miles long and only about an hour's drive from Seattle (although the Olympian Hiawatha would have needed almost 2 hours to get there from Seattle Union Station).

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:29 am https://www.yakimaherald.com/news/local ... 2.amp.html

I'll ask my coauthor about this, as he's in Yakima...

I have indeed. I'm hoping they get it. Would love train rides out of here.

I also have seen what looks like a train platform being built on downtown's main thoroughfare.

Even if it doesn't go to Seattle I wouldn't mind a Spokane line. Got a couple friends there I haven't seen in years cause I hate long drives.

He did ID what looked like some platform construction at West Yakima and Front Street (Google maps location for reference). There's a rail line that does connect to Seattle and the Portland, OR to Spokane leg of the Empire Builder... and possibly go all the way to Walla Walla.

https://www.kfyrtv.com/2023/03/09/monta ... utType=amp

Nice map.