North Carolina NCDOT-Amtrak Piedmont Service

I guess my above reply was relevant to the post I replied to, but not necessarily to the overall topic, so I just thought I'd mention that I've been monitoring this thread because it IS impressive to see the time-keeping and speed of the Piedmont service.

How has ridership fared in the last few years?

Mr Hsr_fan...

Whither the funding???

No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

Amtrak keeps getting a limp-along subsidy appropriation. It's hard to do fleet renovation and conversion when the cookie jar is empty.

John_Perkowski wrote:Mr Hsr_fan...

Whither the funding???

No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

Amtrak keeps getting a limp-along subsidy appropriation. It's hard to do fleet renovation and conversion when the cookie jar is empty.

I think he'd make the argument that the cars pay for themselves. If that were true, the cost of a renovation would fit in the budget pretty easily -- you'd squeeze one car's renovation in, and when it paid for itself, you'd do another. I don't think it's true that sleepers pay for themselves in most places, though.

Still, to push this back towards the topic in the thread, while holding onto the point the hsr and Mr. Perkowski are debating, I think it's worth drawing out the implications of the original post. The track from Raleigh to Charlotte really does allow some fast movement. This makes the DC-Raleigh section a real missing link, which, if brought up to par, would really extend the NEC into one long corridor of very solid passenger service -- an EC if you will.

While connect-the-dots planning can be overrated, I think that there is real potential here, because you already have some markets where trains are a first or second thought for average people, and adding VA and NC as potential destinations only strengthens that. I've said before that this is part of the 'critical mass' problem for trains. In most places in the country, even if there is a decent train going somewhere, it's not on most people's minds, because it only goes one or two places they'd ever go, and the vast majority of their destinations are not served. So planes and automobiles are the reflex choices for them, and Amtrak is only an afterthought for those few who stop to say, how else might I travel.

Adding a fast corridor in, say, Ohio would only do so much, but filling in the section from Raleigh to DC would make Amtrak a reflex option for a lot of people -- an option they just naturally think of for most of their trips, because it would be time- and cost-competitive for many, many destinations along the entire east coast.

When trains become a reflex choice, then sleepers will be more likely to pay for themselves, because a lot more people will be considering them.

The Richmond to Raleigh segment is frankly, a heartbreaker. You have pretty solid to downright zippy service on either side from DC to Charlotte, and a black hole of lost time in between. The Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor project is an attempt to solve that issue.

VA and NC are very serious about this and as you can see the website was updated just a few weeks ago. The strategy is for the SEHSR corridor to be in position to be at absolute front of the line for funding if a federal partner program emerges for rail capital investment.

As to ne plus ultra's question on ridership, the Piedmont was the train with the second-largest increase in ridership (after the Downeaster) last year, with a 17% increase.

Amtrak Ridership Press Release

Pullman-Standard put out a press release that the Horizon cars had Budd accessories installed because the buyer (Amtrak) wanted compatibility with previous purchases from another supplier.

As usual, the current stats for July are first, with last month’s (June 07) results in parentheses.

Here are the numbers:

Train 73: RGH - CLT
Scheduled Running Time: 3:09
Average Running Time: 3:17 (3:08)
Median Running Time: 3:07 (3:07)
Minimum Running Time: 3:02 (2:58)
Maximum Running Time: 6:11 (3:17)
St Deviation (in minutes): 34 (05)
90th Percentile Running Time: 3:25 (3:14)
Amtrak On-Time Standard Percentage: 83% (97%)


Train 74: CLT - RGH
Scheduled Running Time: 3:10
Average Running Time: 3:18 (3:18)
Median Running Time: 3:13 (3:10)
Minimum Running Time: 3:01 (3:05)
Maximum Running Time: 4:14 (3:58)
St Deviation (in minutes): 19 (14)
90th Percentile Running Time: 3:39 (3:39)
Amtrak On-Time Standard Percentage: 72% (70%)

If I look at the last 30 months, anyone riding 73 has a 90% chance of being less than 15 minutes late, and anyone riding 74 has a 90% chance of being less than 30 minutes late. Considering the train runs during rush hour periods through the state, end to end, the train probably beats driving most of the time.

In mildly exciting news, I caught something new today on the NCDOT Rail Divison website that I hadn't seen before.

If you look on the Track Improvements Status Chart page, you'll see several projects that have been up there for awhile, including the double-tracking between Cox/Hoskins control points from Greensboro to High Point, the under-construction East Durham siding, and the GRO-CLT superelevation project.

The new (to me, at least) items that stand out are a superelevation/grade crossing project from Raleigh to Selma which would add another 25 miles of 79 mph MAS running for the Carolinian, and then two new double-track projects between Greensboro and Charlotte scheduled in the 2012-2013 timeframe. Assuming these projects are completed along with the Cox/Hoskins and Bowers/Lake double-tracking projects, and even throwing in a 2-year lag for kicks, the entire GRO-CLT mainline could potentially be double-tracked by 2015.

Of course, if Congress would get its act together on Amtrak and fund a Federal match for rail investment, we could do this even faster.

The final item to note on the track improvements page is that most of the improvements in the current round for the RGH-GRO section are complete, barring 1:30 worth of improvements from one siding and a signal project that are not yet completed.

This being the case, I expect the RGH-GRO travel time to remain at 1:28 for several years, barring the arrival of tilt trains (unlikely). The GRO-CLT corridor is where the time savings will begin to accrue in the next 5-7 years.

Exciting, but gosh, I wish this stuff could happen faster.

Thanks for the update; the Piedmont certainly seems to be a well-operated service. Goes to show what can be done when the state invests in reliability. It does raise a question, though: given that the reliability is quite good and the average speed is high, why is the ridership so low? In May, there were 4,315 passengers, or an average of just under 70 per train. Most of the Midwest corridor services are in the neighborhood of 120-150 passengers per train; even the Hoosier State has been averaging about 60 passengers per train. What is going on?

Good question. I don't know much about the Midwest corridor services, but I would have to guess the answer is a combination of frequency and density, and that Chicago is a transportation hub of enormous magnitude.

The Piedmont runs once a day in each direction. The speed is good, the reliability is good, but unless you're headed to Charlotte or any other destination along the corridor to spend the day, you're looking at as much as a 13-hour roundtrip or an overnight stay.

If you want to go Chicago to St Louis, you have choices about when you leave and return because you can get at least 5 trains that way.

Another factor is probably the dense population and large transit networks of Chicago and St Louis, where many people are used to riding trains within their cities, and therefore, taking a train to another city makes more sense. It's also easier in Chicago and St Louis to get around without cars once you get off the train.

NC is growing quickly, but Charlotte is the only really "big" city on the line and none of them have local rail, although Charlotte's will open this fall.

Just some guesses.

While on an auto trip this past April from Atlanta to Richmond , I noted the signs promoting use of rail posted along the Carolina Corridor of I-85.

It's nice to see states step up to the plate and create success stories like that of the Piedmont in North Carolina or the Downeaster through Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Maine.

Exciting, but gosh, I wish this stuff could happen faster.

Yeah, I agree, but at least they're making steady progress! In a few years, I think there are likely to be more speed increases and additional frequencies. (And New York will probably still be trying to resolve the Turboliner lawsuit and putting out yet another high speed rail study that cost millions to write! )

There is supposed to be another pair of midday runs added in 2008. The tentative schedule is a 12:00 PM departure from CLT and a 12:30 departure from RGH.

This would make much better use of the equipment and I imagine we would see passengers per train climb after about a year or so as people found out they had some choices in regards to train travel.

It sounds like adding the midday frequencies is going to require a second trainset. Given the high level of reliability on the route, they could easily make three round trips with two trainsets. One of the RTs would shadow the Carolinian pretty closely, but I hope that they consider moving right from one to three RTs. I think that one of the main lessons of the Capitols and Downeasters is that equipment utilization matters, and smart utilization can increase service (and ridership) without a huge increase in costs.

mkellerm wrote:It sounds like adding the midday frequencies is going to require a second trainset. Given the high level of reliability on the route, they could easily make three round trips with two trainsets. One of the RTs would shadow the Carolinian pretty closely, but I hope that they consider moving right from one to three RTs. I think that one of the main lessons of the Capitols and Downeasters is that equipment utilization matters, and smart utilization can increase service (and ridership) without a huge increase in costs.

Yes, there will be a second trainset. There are 2 F59-PHIs in the state fleet, named "City of Salisbury" and "City of Asheville." Assuming the line to Asheville is ever restored and put into service, those engines will move to that line.

Until then, the F59-PHIs take turns pulling the Piedmont back and forth. I also believe NCDOT has restored or refurbished enough cars to make up two consists for the additional roundtrip.

Consist 1 will leave Raleigh at the current time, and return to Charlotte around 12 pm.

Consist 2 will leave Charlotte around 12:30 pm, and return from Charlotte to Raleigh at the current time.

Maybe matthewswaggie could tell us more about the coaches that would be available for the midday runs?

The most popular Cascades trains are the mid-day departures and I will predict that the mid-day Piedmonts will be very popular too. The departure times of the current Piedmonts are good for business travelers, but in this day, most business people are still in their cars. Students and discretionary travelers will find the noonish departure times very convenient.

Vincent wrote:The most popular Cascades trains are the mid-day departures

Really? Each time I make a reservation to head to Seattle, it seems the mid-day trains are always at the lowest fare bucket with plenty of seats, and the 8:20 AM departure out of Portland is the hardest (most expensive) to get. When I am out railfanning and catch one of the mid-day trains in Vancouver, they also seem to be lightly patronized, but the morning/evening trains are typically well-used.