Metrolink Crash in Chatsworth, CA - 9/12/08

kevikens wrote:I am nothing more than a railfan. The news at about 4:30 PM says the engineer of the commuter train "fell asleep". Is there not some kind of "dead man" device that would have kicked in and sent off alarms or even put the train into an emergency stop ? Also if an engineer in the cab had been stricken how would anyone else on the train have known ? Is not the conductor insulated from the cab back in the coaches ? Is there anyone else in that cab with the engineer ? Maybe having fireman in the cabs with the engineer is still a good idea. P.S. As nothing more than a rail fan I apologize for any ignorance of what actually goes on in train cabs ahead of time.

The media doesn't know anything about how a railroad operates. To them the only explanation was that the engineer fell asleep, yet there are many other reasons to look into. In the '96 MARC/Amtrak crash the engineer also passed a red, but was wide awake, he just forgot he had previously passed a yellow before making a station stop. So he proceeded as if he was all clear, and couldn't stop in time for the red signal.

The Conductor is the Captain of the ship. Whether the stop at that signal is prearranged or was due to scheduling modifications the Conductor knows what action the Engineer must take at the siding Home signal and should be aware of the train going by the signal. The Conductor should be alert at any siding moves from double track to single track. Also he would be aware of the other trains having made the meet. He may have not had time to take any action however there should be some communication on the radio of him taking some verbal action

The Conductor is the boss but that doesn't mean he has complete information. If this was CTC territory, the signals are the authority for operating the train and in the absence of the dispatcher letting them know what he had planned (not required as far as I know), there is no way you can assume they knew they were supposed to meet that freight there.

Some railroads do not require engineers to call Clear signals. So, engineer spaces out and fails to call the Approach and Stop signals; the Conductor, attending to the passengers, has no reason whatsoever to think anything is amiss. I have no idea what rules apply there (back shortly after the Amtrak Chicago crash where the train apparently ran track speed on a Restricting signal, my comment that Dispatchers should let trains know what the big picture and plan is was shot down by the employee "experts" who said there's no need if employees would just follow the rules. This could well turn out to be a situation where one employee didn't follow the rules and with nobody else clued into what the "big picture" was, nobody else knew anything was wrong until way too late).

So far, I've seen nothing about what signals / authority rules are in effect there. Yet we have a lot of people posting assuming that the rules and procedures of their railroad as well as the technology of their railroad apply there as well.

24 fatalities and counting.. Horrible.

The location of this wreck was most probably a huge factor in the number of fatalities. The engineers of both trains probably didn't even see each other until seconds before impact, each obscured by a blind curve, hill, and small tunnel under Topanga Canyon Blvd. Also, it seems the physics of the impact on this curve resulted in less "accordion" folding of cars, the loco being pushed into the first passenger car instead.

My condolences go out to all the victims of this tragedy.

K

LAPD Officer Spree Desha, who was en route home following her tour of duty at LAPD's Office of Operations, was among those victims of this crash who succumbed to their injuries. P.O. Desha, a well-liked and extremely capable officer had been a Field Training Officer in LAPD's North Hollywood Division before her transfer to Operations. As was customary for her, she took the Metrolink home after finishing her shift, and as was also her custom, rode in uniform in the first car so as to be available on board should the need arise for a police officer. The force of the wreckage was so severe that it reportedly bent her large LAPD badge almost in half. As the officer was being removed from the wreckage, an impromptu honor guard was formed with police, fire, and other rescue workers saluting in rows as the fallen officer passed by, covered in an American flag. P.O. Desha was well known for her work with persons afflicted with cancer, supporting and encouraging patients going through radiation treatments by shaving off her very beautiful hair in solidarity with them. This lady was an inspiration for all and will be sorely missed by everyone that she touched with her tenderness and the entire family of the law enforcement community. God bless and rest in peace, Officer Desha.

From The Los Angles Times

By Esmeralda Bermudez, Garrett Therolf and Gale Holland, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
3:02 PM PDT, September 13, 2008

"Metrolink officials said today that an engineer on their commuter train that collided head-on Friday afternoon with a freight train -- killing at least 25 and critically injuring dozens more -- drove through a red light telling him to stop."

Metrolink says its engineer failed to heed signal in Chatsworth train crash

The track between the Chadsworth Metrolink station and the signal at the trailing point turnout before the curve is tangent. The distance between Chadsworth Metrolink station and the signal is a little over a mile

A "possible" mitigating factor....

http://www.cbs2.com/video/?id=77167

KarlJ wrote:A "possible" mitigating factor....

http://www.cbs2.com/video/?id=77167

Mitigating ?

http://www.ktla.com/pages/content_landi ... eedID=1198

Apparently, phone records also confirm according to an LA radio station.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:

realtype wrote:This accident is eerily similar to the 1996 Amtrak Cap. Ltd./MARC accident in Silver Spring, MD on the CSX Metropolitan Sub. That engineer also coasted past a red signal, plowing into the nbound Amtrak train that was switching tracks at Georgetown Jct., killing himself and 10 other people. The MARC cab car looked a bit like that Bombardier except it was more sideswiped, rather than head-on. Ever since then MARC has been obsessed with safety as is regarded as one of the safest systems in the country. This CA Metrolink incident is definitely the worst passenger rail accident (in this country) since then. At the very least this incident will also help prevent similar events from occuring in the future.

Interestingly the MARC wreck occured only one week after the NJT incident at Bergen Jct. Both incidents were similar to yesterday's.

The NTSB found fatigue and signal calling to be the major factors contributing to both the Secauscus NJT and Silver Spring MARC accidents in 1996. This seems to be the biggest issue in this case. Metrolink is already casting blame on the engineer, although I think the NTSB should be given a chance to carry out there full review before drawing any final conclusions.

See:
NTSB Testimony before the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure Subcommittee on Railroads, House of Representatives Regarding Human Factors in Railroad Accidents

Ironically enough, one of the results of the Bergen Junction wreck was the hastening of NJT to install cab signals/ATC on the entire Hoboken division and on the parts of the Newark Division that were not already so equipped.

As for other railroads, most don't bother with cab signals/ATc simply because of the cost. Even after accidents like this. Although if the time factors are accurate, even cab signals and ATC may not have prevented the Metrolink accident, since the Metrolink train would have come to a stop when his cabs dropped, and the UP freight would still be trying to stop after his cab signals dropped upon intrusion of the Metrolink...

DutchRailnut wrote:http://www.ktla.com/pages/content_landi ... eedID=1198

Apparently, phone records also confirm according to an LA radio station.

Apparently texting his young teenage rail nerd buddies was more important than preparing to navigate his heavy locomotive through a winding tunnel, if this is true of course.

DutchRailnut wrote:http://www.ktla.com/pages/content_landi ... eedID=1198

Apparently, phone records also confirm according to an LA radio station.

I watched that video about the teens and the texting and wondered if they could be held accountable in any way? I mean i know they were just railfanning and texting the engineer not knowing what would happen shortly later. But because of there actions in texting him, it may have lead to the distraction, no? And I do I feel bad for them too, they lost a friend who according to them loved trains just as much as they did.

Prayers to all the families involved, whether it be a death in that family or just a scratch.

Man, I knew something like this would be said.... In NO way is it the teen railfan's fault. As an engineer if I choose to do something to distract me from my duties, its on me. At NJT we are not even supposed to have our cell phones on while running. As tragic as this situation is, if this is true, the choice of the engineer not only ended his own life but the lives of many others and let this be a lesson. Remember rules are written in Blood.

Steve F45 wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:http://www.ktla.com/pages/content_landi ... eedID=1198

Apparently, phone records also confirm according to an LA radio station.

I watched that video about the teens and the texting and wondered if they could be held accountable in any way? I mean i know they were just railfanning and texting the engineer not knowing what would happen shortly later. But because of there actions in texting him, it may have lead to the distraction, no? And I do I feel bad for them too, they lost a friend who according to them loved trains just as much as they did.

Prayers to all the families involved, whether it be a death in that family or just a scratch.

Speaking as an ex-engineman I have to say it's the reponsibility of the engineman not to be distracted. If those kids were indeed texting, so be it. I don't think they could be found responsible. It's the engineman's responsibility to stay focussed on his job, and turn his device off.