Lehigh Valley 1000 - club/coach

I'm doing some historical research on a heavyweight passenger car that spent the first 50 years of its service (1911-1961) as Lehigh Valley 1000, a baggage-club car later converted to a cafe-club car.

Thanks to the Lehigh Valley Railroad modeler web pages edited by the late Ed Schaller, currently hosted by the Anthracite Railroads Historical Society, I found some information on this car during its Lehigh Valley years, which fills a gap in my prior history of the car.

Built by Pullman in 1911 as baggage club car LV 1000 ... rebuilt to full club car in 1929 ... rebuilt in 1939 for assignment to the "John Wilkes" ... rebuilt with 24 dining seats and 22 club seats and modernized with streamlined appearance circa 1953 .. sold to LIRR in 1961.

LIRR used the car in premium fare parlor car and club car service 1961 - 1974. For the past 35 or so years, it has been parked in Marietta GA as part of a (now closed) restaurant. It was recently sold at auction to a new owner.

Here are some photos of the car in LIRR service and later years of private ownership:

http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/ ... _club.html

I am looking for any photos of this car in service as Lehigh Valley 1000 sometime between 1911 and 1961. It would be great to have a photo of the car before it was modernized and a photo after it was modernized, but as a beggar I can not be so choosy!

I am also looking for any info relevant to its use by LV, as I never knew much about the LV.

Jack Deasy
Webmaster, LIRR Parlor Cars website
http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/lirr

I'm told that Genessee Valley Transportation Company has purchased the modernized heavyweight club car, built by Pullman in 1911, that served Lehigh Valley passengers (1911-1961) and then Long Island Rail Road passengers (1961-1974) until it was retired, acquired by a private owner and moved to Marietta, Georgia, as part of a restuarant complex.

While on Lehigh Valley, the car was LV 1000. During its time on LIRR, it was 2037 TUSACARORA CLUB, renamed ONTEORA in 1972, and was a member of the parlor car fleet.

Congratulations to GVT on their new acquisition! After they determine how to move the car from Georgia to one of their properties in the northeast, it will be interesting to see how they refurbish the car and how they will use it.

I saw a posting on the anthracite yahoo list that the car is now going to be scrapped in Georgia. Can anyone confirm this? I am assuming that the effort by GVT to save this car failed?

Well, I hoped it wouldn’t occur and this story would have a happy ending.
But the destruction and removal of the Tuscarora Club has begun, hope the City of Marietta will be happy now!
Saw footage of the demolition company cutting the side out of it on channel 2 news on Friday 10/16/09.
Here are some somber pics from the Marietta.com web site as of 10/19.

Wait.. What? All of a sudden, the City of Marienette GA. just decides to start ripping this car apart, even though it's owned by GVT? Does this mean that they're violating some sort of contract? Or Did GVT never fully complete the purchase? Wow.. I can't think of what to say, at this point, I hate that city, and the idiot who wanted the car scrapped.

Lehighton_Man wrote:Wait.. What? All of a sudden, the City of Marienette GA. just decides to start ripping this car apart, even though it's owned by GVT? Does this mean that they're violating some sort of contract? Or Did GVT never fully complete the purchase? Wow.. I can't think of what to say, at this point, I hate that city, and the idiot who wanted the car scrapped.

Sean,
None of that ever happened..

yes, GVT bought the car..they wanted to save it..they hoped to be able to use it!
but they couldnt get it moved..CSX refused to move the car, citing its age and condition..
GVT then attempted to sell it, they even offered $2,500 to anyone who could move it and save it..
they had no takers..
the city demanded something be done..time had run out..
the only option remaining was to scrap the car.

The full story: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... &sk=t&sd=a

its sad, but sometimes it just ends this way..
in this case, they were out of options..
GVT attempted to save it, but it just ended up being unfeasable..

Scot

When CSX won't move it on it's own wheels it's called put it on a flatcar. They do it with locomotives and other rail cars, no reason it couldn't have been done with this one.

lvrr325 wrote:When CSX won't move it on it's own wheels it's called put it on a flatcar. They do it with locomotives and other rail cars, no reason it couldn't have been done with this one.

"no reason" apart from cost..money usually is a factor in these situations..
and in this case, putting it on a flatcar probably was not an option, due to the unusual length of the car..

None of us here know the full story..
we dont know everything that was tried, or considered, to save the car..
GVT bought the car obviously hoping to move it..
the fact that they didnt is reason enough to assume that it simply was beyond their budget..
(or anyone's budget for that matter)(anyone who actually cared)..case closed.
sure, anything can be moved anywhere..if funds are unlimited..but no one has unlimited funds..
I dont blame GVT in this case..I think they did all they could reasonably be expected to do..
If I bought the car for $423, then found out it would cost $35,000 to move it,..well, I would have sadly been forced to scrap it too..I have $423..I dont have $35,000..its just life...some things actually are impossible if you, personally, dont have the money.

GVT probably took a big loss on this deal! they paid $423 for the car..then generously offered $2,500 toward expenses if anyone could move it..no one could..then they probably paid to have the car scrapped!
I think we can cut them some slack..

Scot

This is why the class 1s need some form of reregulation. It wouldn't be THAT hard for CSX to rent a crane, load the thing on a 89' flat, and move it.
Oh, wait, this is CSX were talking about! That's right! The very same railroad that repaints its famous engines into its puke colors (HINT HINT 4617) And cares nothing for history, while reaching all time records of the most wrecked trains. Gee, that sounds like CSX to me. Thanks again, to the wonderful IDIOTS in Jacksonville, who care only about their damn paychecks, and end of the year million dollar bonuses.
*Storms off pissed off about CSX and its severe lack of common sense*

ummm..Sean..
this really has nothing to do with CSX..
it wasnt CSX's responsibility to rent a crane..they didnt own the car.
and CSX was perfectly within their rights to refuse to move the car by rail..
ANY class-1 would have refused! not just CSX..
we had a LV U-boat scrapped recently because UP refused to move it, due to its age and condition.

Sometimes the class-1's can be cooperative to preservation efforts, but they dont have to be if they think
it will interfere with their primary business..or if its dangerous, or whatever..
and even when they do cooperate to move something, its certainty not their responsibility to rent all the equipment to get the car to live rail..

I understand we all want someone to "blame" ..but there is really no one to blame in this case..
except money I suppose..(lack of money)

Personally I cant buy a Ferrari..ever..I will never own a Ferrari in my life..(and I would really like one!) but it would be pretty pointless to get upset about it and start burning $20 bills because im "mad at money" because money wont let me buy a ferrari..

Scot

Lots of 89 foot flatcars out there, just plop it on an old one on some cribbing and weld it right to the body. As long as it has 100-ton or 125-ton springs in the trucks, it's fine. Too long? A couple short flats on each end. It's probably going to have to travel as a dimensional load, and you need another flat for the trucks and whatever else you pull off it, anyways. Just a matter of not exceeding the weight limit of the flat, probably would have to gut the underbody. Height should not be a big issue.

GVT has a diesel shop in Scranton, they aught to have their own crane to do it, if not, RJ Corman, Hulcher, or any of a dozen other outfits could do it. Not that expensive. Have priced it out in the past for movement of other old junk. Certainly not cheap, but if you're going to buy an old railroad car, you need to be prepared to spend $10,000 to get it moved like it was a nickel in a gumball machine.

And the shipper's responsible for loading, not CSX. CSX only need accept the finished load.

Let me set the record straight on this one. We did purchase the passenger car in an effort to save it from being cut. As one can imagine there are not a lot of Lehigh Valley passenger cars still around and we had hoped to save this one. After purchase we had a very qualified Amtrak inspector go to Marietta and examine the car. Much to my dismay the car was in terrible structual condition. While the car looked pretty good in photos, once a thorough inspection was performed it was found that there were 3 insurmountable problems with the car....

1) The wheels had been welded to the track. Any welding on the wheels, which were rim stamped, would immediately disqualify them from operating on any railroad at any time except for an emergency situation.

2) The car's side sills and center sill were rusted through to the point where the car had lost it's structural integrity. In fact, there was a concern that if the car was lifted, it could possibly break in two.

3) The floor was crumbling because of water damage coming through holes in the roof.

We tried to keep the car in place but the City of Marietta was focused on having the car removed. I was actually issued a summons to appear in Marietta court for having a "building" that was in disrepair.

CSX was in no way a culprit in this situation,and does not deserve any of the blame for the car being cut. In fact,after looking at the structure we never even discussed movement with them because we knew the car was unsafe.

Chalk this one up under the "Not everything can be saved category" It was just too far gone.


Michael Thomas
GVT Rail

Michael,
thank you for the clear and logical explanation..
its too bad the car couldnt be saved..but at least you tried!
thats more than many people or groups can do..
for that alone, you have our thanks..

Scot

sixaxlealcoII wrote:Let me set the record straight on this one.

Appreciate you setting the record straight.

-otto-

Just one question, did any of the parts get saved. Light fixtures, stove, or hat rackes etc? If they did go to the junk yard, I bet the stove might have been kept by the dealer.