Coming from Lehighton, my view is certainly differentNot too different. I'm sure that what with being on the US 209 corridor, you're seeing and hearing just what's going on in not just the Poconos but also the ABE area—which is worse in many ways what with their basically destroying the railroad infrastructure to build housing in an area that is far more congested than along the I-80/I-380 corridor. It's trickling into Lehighton, Jim Thorpe, and will probably hit Tamaqua next...
Railroad Forums
Lackawanna cutoff
- Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Moderator: David
Yup. Well, I like to think there's some hope for ABE. I mean, the planning commission is focusing development now along the completed Rt. 33, which runs between Bethlehem and Easton, two established cities. And, driveby's nonetheless, Allentown has some hope, with the PPL center just built, and if you go down there, you can see the 'second generation' shops and stores-mostly immigrant and urban clothing, definitely a fresh flavor for the PA dutch city.
Carbon County does has a planning agency. The big picture is for Mahoning valley west of Lehighton to become the 'downtown' of the area, with the eastern and northern areas concentrating on housing for 'newcomers'. At least there is a farmland conservation plan in effect. Plus, Lehighton's downtown is getting a fresh start with grants, just as a SuperWalmart and Lowe's are 'moving in'.
Mike
Carbon County does has a planning agency. The big picture is for Mahoning valley west of Lehighton to become the 'downtown' of the area, with the eastern and northern areas concentrating on housing for 'newcomers'. At least there is a farmland conservation plan in effect. Plus, Lehighton's downtown is getting a fresh start with grants, just as a SuperWalmart and Lowe's are 'moving in'.
Mike
telephone, telegraph, and tell a railroader
-S.E. Miller
-S.E. Miller
56-57 wrote:Alright, I'm willing to admit I took the thread off-course, but I don't want to think I killed a good thread.The Township Journal
Someone out there must have something to say about the Cut-Off. Anything more in the news???
Mike
The Byram council is encouraging all residents to a meeting to discuss a railroad set to run through the township sometime in 2006.
The Lackawanna Cut-Off project aims to revive a one existing railroad link between Lake Hopatcong and the Delaware Water Gap.
The New Jersey Transit Corporation will hon and open house on June 29 at the Adam Todd Banquet Caterers on Route 206 at Cranberry Lake between the hours of 3 and 8 p, to share the preliminary results of the planning and environmental analysis for the project.
Id the railroad passes, every single person in the town will be affected some way said Councilman Ear Riley at Monday night's council meeting. I encourage everyone to come out.
The proposed railway revival has been a response to increasing traffic on RT 80 .
Byram Mayor Eskill Danielson is calling the open house a "public information session" in which questions will be answered by railroad officials. However, not everyone agrees with that opinion.
According to Byram Council Member Donna Griff, the meeting forum will provide a disservice to those in attendance because it will not be an open debate. Shes said that the questions will be written down and there will be no way of telling what NJ Transit will or will not answer.
"Put on your Choo-Choo Charlie hate and let's go" said Griff mocking the NJ Transit idea. She believe the open house will be used to spread propaganda to support the building of the railway. Instead she suggested, "Give us a public forum and let's debate it"
According to Griff, the people will not get to hear about the possibility that the trains may be used to transport trash or about the increasing number of homes that could be but in the township with the rezoning the railroad could create.
Councilman Lou Esposito also expressed disappointment with the method in which the meeting will be governed and referred to the open house as "the cards we've been delt"
He added that at a prior meeting, approximately, 2000 local residents attended and that the large majority of those in attendance were opposed to the railway construction.
According to the councilman, he facts released by NJ transit made it appear that the railroad had overwhelming support.
Despite their disappointment with the formate of the meeting, bit Espositio and Griff encourage all residents to attend. Griff is the only member of the council will will not attend because she has a previous engagement.
For his part, Riley stated that he is looking forward to the meeting adding that many people have ideas that are both for and against the railroad and that there i no way of telling how many people really feel unless they show up at the meeting.
"We have opportunity here... we can hear what the concerns are said Riley "We said that these are the cards we were dealt, let's take the deck and for something with it.
I canvassed a forum in Warren and Sussex County and of the responses I received, many wanted the rail service.
Griff mentions that they could build more homes if the service is not restored" I guess she doesn't use RT 206. How the hell anyone would want more development in this area is beyond me.
Ken
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
"According to Griff, the people will not get to hear about the possibility that the trains may be used to transport trash"What possibility? The Cutoff restoration is not for any kind of freight haulage, bottom line. Certainly the D-L isn't going to send their Alcos into NJ to pick up trash. And if NS wants to suddenly use this as a freight route, they can always put money into building their own track...but Conrail didn't consider the Cutoff to be any worth, and besides NS already has a route between NJ and northeastern PA.
And let's say there is this (slim) possibility, would Ms. Griff claim that having hundreds of trucks on I-80 (as at present) is actually better?? The municipal waste trucks are much closer to driving and bussing (sic) commuters on the highway than a trash train would be to rail passengers. Not to mention that the Cutoff is just as separated from its surrounding areas, if not better so, than I-80—so if a trash train goes off the rails, it'll be as "unproblematic" as if a municipal waste tractor-trailer overturns on the highway. (And oh yeah, I've seen municipal waste tractor-trailers on other routes besides the interstates.)
Irish Chieftain wrote:"According to Griff, the people will not get to hear about the possibility that the trains may be used to transport trash"What possibility? The Cutoff restoration is not for any kind of freight haulage, bottom line. Certainly the D-L isn't going to send their Alcos into NJ to pick up trash. And if NS wants to suddenly use this as a freight route, they can always put money into building their own track...but Conrail didn't consider the Cutoff to be any worth, and besides NS already has a route between NJ and northeastern PA.
And let's say there is this (slim) possibility, would Ms. Griff claim that having hundreds of trucks on I-80 (as at present) is actually better?? The municipal waste trucks are much closer to driving and bussing (sic) commuters on the highway than a trash train would be to rail passengers. Not to mention that the Cutoff is just as separated from its surrounding areas, if not better so, than I-80—so if a trash train goes off the rails, it'll be as "unproblematic" as if a municipal waste tractor-trailer overturns on the highway. (And oh yeah, I've seen municipal waste tractor-trailers on other routes besides the interstates.)
I agree and let me add one more. Most of the people in this area are tired of the traffic and yet they're unwilling to do anything about it. Add to this the comment from one councilwoman that she's afraid that there will be less room to build.
There has to be more to this story
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Some reader responses at the NJ forum at http://www.nj.com/forums/sussex/index.ssf
DON'T LET OUR HIGHLANDS GET RAILROADED!
The NJ Department Of Transit will be hosting an open house to present its proposal to restore the Lackawanna Cutoff rail line through The Highlands on Tuesday, June 29, from 3:00PM - 8:00PM. The open house will be held at the Adam Todd Inn on Route 206 in Cranberry Lake, Byram Twp. Touted as a remedy for traffic problems on Rt. 80, the railroad would more likely invite sprawl development to unprotected, currently pristine parts of the Highlands, and to the spectacular Kitattinny Valley beyond. By encouraging more development, it would more likely increase the volume of traffic on Rt 80 and elsewhere in Northwest NJ, not reduce it. Furthermore, the line is probably intended to be used in conjunction with the proposed Staten Island and Rahway Valley Railroad to haul NYC garbage and freight from Elizabeth to the landfills and freight lines of PA. The DOT is trying to restore that line also (through the Union County communities of Roselle, Roselle Park, Cranford, Kenilworth, Union, Springfield and Summit - despite strong opposition from Union County communities- visitwww.stopthetrain.org andwww.westgatesquare.com/Railroad%20Letter%2003-24-04.pdf for additional information).
Mass transit and rail are often more environmentally friendly modes of moving garbage, freight, and people, but only when appropriate, and certainly not through our Highlands. Furthermore, the proposed sighting of train stations in the Highlands at Andover, and in Blairstown, would severely impact these areas, and invite unwanted sprawl development (Andover's share of the Highlands, adjacent to the proposed transportation hub, is excluded from the Highlands core preservation area). Finally, the resulting noise, pollution, and smell from the trains and the garbage, the use of toxic defoliants and creosote, which has already occurred in Union County, construction and increased traffic along the line would degrade rural and environmentally sensitive areas. I am hoping that our friends in the environmental community and all other interested parties will take notice of this issue, and will attend the open house.
http://www.njtransit.com/an_capitalproj ... ct019.shtm
DON'T LET OUR HIGHLANDS GET RAILROADED!
The NJ Department Of Transit will be hosting an open house to present its proposal to restore the Lackawanna Cutoff rail line through The Highlands on Tuesday, June 29, from 3:00PM - 8:00PM. The open house will be held at the Adam Todd Inn on Route 206 in Cranberry Lake, Byram Twp. Touted as a remedy for traffic problems on Rt. 80, the railroad would more likely invite sprawl development to unprotected, currently pristine parts of the Highlands, and to the spectacular Kitattinny Valley beyond. By encouraging more development, it would more likely increase the volume of traffic on Rt 80 and elsewhere in Northwest NJ, not reduce it. Furthermore, the line is probably intended to be used in conjunction with the proposed Staten Island and Rahway Valley Railroad to haul NYC garbage and freight from Elizabeth to the landfills and freight lines of PA. The DOT is trying to restore that line also (through the Union County communities of Roselle, Roselle Park, Cranford, Kenilworth, Union, Springfield and Summit - despite strong opposition from Union County communities- visitwww.stopthetrain.org andwww.westgatesquare.com/Railroad%20Letter%2003-24-04.pdf for additional information).
Mass transit and rail are often more environmentally friendly modes of moving garbage, freight, and people, but only when appropriate, and certainly not through our Highlands. Furthermore, the proposed sighting of train stations in the Highlands at Andover, and in Blairstown, would severely impact these areas, and invite unwanted sprawl development (Andover's share of the Highlands, adjacent to the proposed transportation hub, is excluded from the Highlands core preservation area). Finally, the resulting noise, pollution, and smell from the trains and the garbage, the use of toxic defoliants and creosote, which has already occurred in Union County, construction and increased traffic along the line would degrade rural and environmentally sensitive areas. I am hoping that our friends in the environmental community and all other interested parties will take notice of this issue, and will attend the open house.
http://www.njtransit.com/an_capitalproj ... ct019.shtm
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
I wish I had more time to research this but if you could provide some information, like you already have, it would help promote the restoration of the cut-off.
Here's another
...that a HUGE transit village ( w/approx. 600 housing units!) will be built , as proposed, in woodlands that Andover Township FOUGHT to have excluded from the Highlands, even though science and geology say that they are VERY MUCH a part of the Highlands. THAT will very much increase traffic and building pressure in nearby areas as well.
Councilwoman Griff just gets excitable sometimes and has a hard time expressing herself clearly.
I'm making up my mind once I see some real facts on the reactivation. I would strongly encourage EVERYONE who has opinions one way or the other to attend Tuesday's Open House at the Adam Todd, 3 pm to 8 pm.
Here's another
...that a HUGE transit village ( w/approx. 600 housing units!) will be built , as proposed, in woodlands that Andover Township FOUGHT to have excluded from the Highlands, even though science and geology say that they are VERY MUCH a part of the Highlands. THAT will very much increase traffic and building pressure in nearby areas as well.
Councilwoman Griff just gets excitable sometimes and has a hard time expressing herself clearly.
I'm making up my mind once I see some real facts on the reactivation. I would strongly encourage EVERYONE who has opinions one way or the other to attend Tuesday's Open House at the Adam Todd, 3 pm to 8 pm.
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Seems to me that Americans have gone too long without anything but the automobile. We're very comfortable with our chariots, trying (and spending money on) anything else is just not something we do. Trains are those old timey pufferbillies up thar in New Hope built by that millionare Assa Parker, the guy who invented the christmas tree on a canal boat... 
You get the picture. I'm surprised a little though, don't any of these people see NJ Transit on the Old Road, aren't they aware of that line, and isn't it relatively close to the area in question???
Mike
You get the picture. I'm surprised a little though, don't any of these people see NJ Transit on the Old Road, aren't they aware of that line, and isn't it relatively close to the area in question???
Mike
telephone, telegraph, and tell a railroader
-S.E. Miller
-S.E. Miller
56-57 wrote:Seems to me that Americans have gone too long without anything but the automobile. We're very comfortable with our chariots, trying (and spending money on) anything else is just not something we do. Trains are those old timey pufferbillies up thar in New Hope built by that millionare Assa Parker, the guy who invented the christmas tree on a canal boat...I may be wrong but it seems like another case of the NIMBYS. Folks in this are complain a lot but are unwilling to do anything about it. I can remember them complaining about no cell phone reception but when it was time to put a tower in the area the cries began. Well, there's a tower in Sparta now. Perhaps the train will prevail.
You get the picture. I'm surprised a little though, don't any of these people see NJ Transit on the Old Road, aren't they aware of that line, and isn't it relatively close to the area in question???
Mike
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Yunno, with the empty promises and LIES that NJT collectively spread in the Star-Ledger and Morristown Daily Record relative to the Montclair Connection project, I can easily see how many residents/taxpayers would be wary of any 'facts' or 'assurances' or 'promises' coming outta NJT's mouthpieces.
As a selfish and biased railfan - and moreso a Lackawanna buff - I'd love to see the Cut-Off reborn. But, if I was a resident of Andover or Blairstown, I'd be very leery of NJT. I'd make dang sure that every little detail was covered with all the i's dotted and tied to IOU's if any deviations from 'the plan' occured along the way.
NJT is a government agency with seemingly carte-blanche to sped gobs of taxpayer money with ZERO acountability when the 'promises', 'assurances' and 'facts' just happen to somehow fail to materialize all too often.
BTW, Gawd Bless Frank Reilly....he's been keeping this project alive for nearly 20 YEARS !
As a selfish and biased railfan - and moreso a Lackawanna buff - I'd love to see the Cut-Off reborn. But, if I was a resident of Andover or Blairstown, I'd be very leery of NJT. I'd make dang sure that every little detail was covered with all the i's dotted and tied to IOU's if any deviations from 'the plan' occured along the way.
NJT is a government agency with seemingly carte-blanche to sped gobs of taxpayer money with ZERO acountability when the 'promises', 'assurances' and 'facts' just happen to somehow fail to materialize all too often.
BTW, Gawd Bless Frank Reilly....he's been keeping this project alive for nearly 20 YEARS !
Mass transit and rail are often more environmentally friendly modes of moving garbage, freight, and people, but only when appropriate, and certainly not through our Highlands.Ah, I get it. I see from this quote that natural laws are somehow altered in the Highlands, which must be in a metaphysical location that differs from the rest of us lowly New Jerseyans. Trains, which are environmentally friendly when running through Summit, for example, become menancing enviro-destructive beasts when run through the rarified air of Andover and Blairstown. Simply amazing.